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To: Cronos
The horrors of the communists were horrors, yes and they made the Tsarist times seem easy, but the Tsarist times were also horrors, on a lower, incompetent scale (the commies were more efficient killing machines). The gulags, secret police etc. were started under the Tsars, perfected by the Marxists

To put this into perspective, the Bolsheviks incarcerated and executed more political prisoners during their first 4 years in power than were imprisoned or executed for political "crimes" during Nicholas II's 20+ years.

a lot of the hell of communism was due to Nicholas's not changing -- he had a chance in 1905 when he set up the Duma. This could have channeled people's ire away from revolution to republicanism/democracy. But he subverted that. The only way for change in Russia was revolution. In contrast in the USA if you didn't like a President, you voted another way in 4 years. In the UK if you didn't like the government, you voted another way. Democracy helps to ease social pressure. The Tsar failed at that (just as Louis XVI was a failure -- why didn't the Tsar learn from history?)

Marxists assassinated Alexander II, a reformist Tsar (he emancipated the serfs). The result was exactly what the Marxists wanted: repression and stagnation under his successors Alexander III and Nicholas II, which paved the way for revolution. The greatest enemy of a radical isn't a repressive reactionary, but a moderate, sensible reformer. Under Alexander II, there was the potential for Russia to evolve into a western-style constitutional monarchy. Instead, it kept autarchy that made the most radical and violent alternatives appealing to a lot of people.

Decent fellow in comparison to Lenin and Stalin -- yes. But that's no comparison, by comparison to Stalin nearly everyone is a saint

That's about right. Under Nicholas the II, Russia was a backward but semi-normal nation in terms of its diplomatic relation to the western world and in the type of people it cultivated as a cultural elite. Under the Bolsheviks, it ceased to be a normal nation in any sense.

13 posted on 12/11/2018 12:27:05 PM PST by ek_hornbeck
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To: ek_hornbeck
i'm NOT defending the Bolshies -- they were horrifying. What I AM saying is the the Tsarist regime was only nicer IN COMPARISON to the Bolshies. By any other measure they were bad. And if they weren't so bad the Bolshies might not have happened

What you said about Alex II is true. If Alex III hadn't happened things could have been different

I dispute calling the Tsar's semi-normal -- probably lower than that, but nowhere near the depths plumbed by the communists

14 posted on 12/12/2018 2:27:05 AM PST by Cronos (Obama's dislike of Assad is not based on his brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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