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Locked on 04/27/2018 6:02:15 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish bickering between two posters |
Posted on 04/21/2018 9:30:28 AM PDT by Salvation
So therefore you exclude all those who reject the Cath (erroneous , metaphysical) l understanding of the Lord's supper from having eternal life. Meaning you reject Lumen Gentium on that, and expose yourself as a schismatic TradCath. At least you made that damnably clear.
So how does any of that contradict what I posted?
A unbloody sacrifice is ineffective in the remission of sins.
Nor is an unbloody sacrifice the same sacrifice as that of the cross, so that claim is invalid.
Catholics claim that they are participating in the same sacrifice of Jesus dying on the cross but they can’t be because Catholicism uses an altar not a cross and claims it’s unbloody as opposed to the extremely bloody death Jesus died.
But clearly it’s not.
We have *come home*.
We’ve accepted Christ and as a result of that Jesus lives inside of us through the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
He’s far closer to us than y’all can imagine.
Far closer than eating Him would provide.
Clearly your opinion of Scripture is pretty low.
That’s very sad.
Do you read all the ECFs? Or just those who agree with Rome?
How do you read and study the Bible? We've been told a person cannot on his/her own read the Bible and understand it.
Seems some worship a religion more than they do the Lord. I believe Christianity is more about a relationship than about religion.
Why wouldn’t you want to receive Jesus as often as you can?
Because it’s a one time profession of your faith. Where is it stated that faith is a one time acceptance and how can one determine that they will not reject that faith by their actions (sins) before their death?
So according to some, faith in Jesus is what we want to believe, and ignore the words of Jesus that one does not agree with? Or disagree with the oral traditions and teachings that were passed down from the time of Jesus?
The words of the Bible are not mutually exclusive. Obviously there are passages in the Bible that are helpful in understanding the good news, but we still need to understand the big picture.
Again, many want to rely only on what is written in the Bible, and on their selective use of some passages while ignoring others. Many ignore the message if a specific word or name is not mentioned.
So does one have faith in Jesus as God, if they only believe in some teachings while ignoring other teachings?
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
Yes our flesh on earth profits nothing, but the Body and Blood of Jesus (His Flesh) is our salvation and does profit us. So we should want to accept Jesus in the Eucharist and thank Him for His sacrifice for us.
Great we agree on the Holy Trinity so we’re making some headway.
Now how about the virgin birth of our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus?
Do you believe Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary and became man?
If you want to play that game we can....because I've got a whole lot of questions on the positions of the ECFs and their contradictory positions on Scripture.
You really don't want to go there.
As an Evangelical I am probably far more inclined to believe the Bible than a Roman Catholic. I believe the Bible to be His inspired Word. Rome cannot say that about their "Sacred Tradition" to which they've elevated that to the status of scripture.
It is from their Sacred Tradition they derive a great deal of their error.
I asked you a question a few posts back about John 5:24. Waiting on your answer.
Because He is already with the Christian all the time. Maybe not for the Roman Catholic.
Christianity is not a train where sometimes you get on the ride, get off, then get back on, etc.
The believer in Christ has been sealed with the Spirit (Eph 1:13-14). The believer in Christ is constantly in fellowship with Him, the Spirit and the Father.
Point number 1. I don’t worry that much about what I don’t understand. I worry more about what I DO understand, and don’t live up to. Point number 2. There is, however, one thing I totally, perfectly, completely understand, and that is the ONLY thing that matters even a little bit, The Plan of Salvation.
Now that, I DO understand. I have NO intention of roasting for all eternity. That might appeal to some, but just doesn’t appeal to me very much.
It’s not that other issues are not important, but they pale in comparison to Heaven and Hell. I remain puzzled, why people choose Hell, 🔥 over Heaven. I just don’t get it. 😇
So being anti catholic is the problem, but not "aniti, for you have a TradCath posting on a historical doctrine which damns all those who will not submit to the pope, and by her own argumentation excludes all who reject Cath Eucharistic theology from having spiritual and eternal life, and you relegate this as being an "extremely trivial issue," and those who contend against it are wrong because it offends Catholics in an elitist church?
But if it is only three then I hope more will join. It was a RC who posted this extremely provocative thread, why do you not attack her, except because of your own bias?
Meanwhile, with 26 or 27 posts out of 177 in response to what you define as a trivial issue, then it seems you are a troll, one who whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues. Such arguments can happen on blogs. I’m tired of such trolling myself.
No, you do not, as instead you wrest His words to mean something contrary to His other words, personally and by His Spirit. You hold that John 6:53 is literal, meaning one must physically consume the non-bloody body and blood of Christ under the appearance of (non-existent) bread and wine in order to have life in them.
Yet even in the same chapter the Lord said
"As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me." (John 6:57) "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4) Thus
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. (John 4:34)
Which corresponds to the interpretation the Lord gave to those who presumed He was going to feed them His body and bread on earth, as Moses fed them literal bread:
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. (John 6:62-63)
And there is nothing about the metaphysical explanation Catholicism must resort to since her priests cannot change bread and wine into the actual manifestly physical bloody flesh and blood.
Moreover, NOWHERE in Scripture is spiritual life obtained by literally physically eating anything, much less by NT priests feeding them, but instead, spiritual life is obtained by believing the gospel message, (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Eph. 1:13)
Instead the primary work of NT pastors is that of prayer and preaching. (Act 6:3,4; 2 Tim.4:2) by which they “feed the flock” (Acts 20:28; 1Pt. 5:2) for the word is what is called spiritual food, "milk," (1Co. 3:22; 1Pt. 1:22) and "meat," (Heb. 5:12-14) which is said to "nourish" the souls of believers and build them up, (1 Timothy 4:6; Acts 20:32) and believing it is how the lost obtain life in themselves. (Acts 15:7-9; cf. Psalms 19:7)
See extensive examination here , by God's grace.
Actually they should not if the the dates or celebrations are not seen in the life of the NT church, while regardless, your logic is self-defeating, since it means that since the NT church inherited some things from Judaism then they should have submitted to the magisterial power of such. Thus you invalid the NT church.
Looks like the early Church fathers, some of whom were disciples of St. John, were all wrong.
Also wrong. Name more than one so-called church "father" that can verifiably said to be a direct disciple of John, and where they clearly taught Catholic distinctives (contrary to the inspired NT record ) and why we must accept that a disciple will always reflect the teachings of their master, unless by wholly inspired words, and what writings of CFs or Roman popes were the latter? You are simply parroting specious RC polemics.
And the thousands of martyrs, saints, and theologians of the last two millennia all got it wrong. And the tens of thousands of historians, Protestant theologians, atheists, and and scientists from all other faiths from ordinary workpeople to Kings and Queens who converted to Catholicism all got it wrong.
Indeed, progressively so, if not all wrong (or necessarily all salvifically),
for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (Matthew 7:13)
That sir, would be the classic definition of a conundrum, would it not?
“I too read and study however my conclusions agree with the Fathers, Doctors and Saints of the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus. Your conclusions it would seem do not“
Go to His Word to see what it says and not to confirm your bias that you were taught.
Here an easy test:
if you go to His Word *without preconceptions*, and you learn - as you will - that Romanism is false, are you willing to leave Romanism and follow Him instead?
Thought you might want to read this article.
When our dear Lord was teaching the crowds of the Jews about the Holy Eucharist, in the sixth chapter of John’s Gospel, he was giving them his heart, his burning love, the means of their salvation. But this meant also that he was beginning the sacrifice of his own life for them, which is what the Holy Eucharist is in essence: the offering of the Body and Blood of the Lord, given up and poured out for us sinners.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/how-to-love-with-courage
I agree Dan, but sometimes one must thoroughly define what it means to “believe.”
I contend that the points on which we agree carry much more weight than those upon which we disagree. I would like to build on that foundation first and then identify the point at which we depart to show you that indeed we are brothers in Christ Jesus first and merely arguing about the semantics.
If we can agree on the creed I posted, we can move on to the next foundational element which would be the ten commandments.
Its not according to the "salvation" poster, since that means "damnation" to all who do not literally consume the same (but metaphysical) body and blood of Christ that died on the cross. Instead, spiritual and eternal life is obtained by believing the gospel message with a humble, poor and repentant heart, a faith which purifies the heart and is counted for righteousness, making you accepted in the Beloved on His account, and which effects the fruit of obedience by His Spirit:
The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. (Psalms 34:18)
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41)
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us ; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith . (Acts 15:7-9)
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; (Colossians 2:13)
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (1 Peter 3:18)
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood , to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus . (Romans 3:25-26)
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness . (Romans 4:5)
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved . (Ephesians 1:6)
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. (Romans 6:17-18)
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit . (Romans 8:4)
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