Posted on 04/19/2018 10:18:24 AM PDT by ebb tide
At this point why would anyone believe that Francis "in fact" rejected something against the Catholic Faith?
It is much more likely that this "rejection" is fake.
Besides, "St" JPII's 1983 Code of Canon Law already allows for non-Catholics to receive communion. That post-Vatican II door was already opened.
Very interesting read! Church 'denominations' are failing to hear and obey the Lord's prayer that "they (Believers) be one as you (the Father) and I are one."
If a Church denomination agrees that a different denomination is made up of Christians, then it "may be" the biggest obstacle to full fellowship is: money, religious pride, power and control.
If it’s a question of ritual, which I understand, couldn’t Accomodations have been made for the Protestants present to do communion separately?
If the Catholic Church is all wrong, as you say, why would anyone want to be in Communion with this false thing? For that’s what it means, Communion with Christ, including His Body in all times and all places.
And on the other hand, if the Catholic Church’s doctrines are true and her Communion IS worthy of adherence and belief, why would a person want to receive Her most precious and sacred Sacrament illicitly, without being received into the Church?
IOW: it’s a matter of honesty.
If you don’t believe, don’t receive.
If you DO believe, you need first to be received into the Catholic Church, and Holy Communion is one of the Sacraments of Initiation.
And you would be as welcome as the flowers in May!
“Seemed strange to me.”
I would never take communion in an Episcopal or any other Protestant church.
For me as a Catholic, Christ is not present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and most importantly, it is simply a symbol to you.
I would expect Protestants to realize that the Catholic Eucharist is a sacrament and is Christ under the species of bread and wine.
To expect to receive communion from a Catholic priest simply because of some perceived exclusion, is wrong. I don’t go into a synagogue and expect to read from the Torah because I might “feel” excluded.
One either believes the Eucharist is what a Catholic believes, or does not. If you don’t, don’t expect to participate.
It is a profanation of the sacrament if you do.
I’m not sure what you mean by an accommodation for
Protestants to “do communion separately” . Do you mean they would have a Liturgy and have their own ministers consecrate their own Eucharist? Or do you mean they would bring along previously consecrated bread and wine to distribute to their own members?
Sorry but I’m not sure what you’re envisioning.
Could you explain?
The "Church" as you state it, is not the Roman Catholic Church. The "Church" is the body of all those who've placed their faith in the redemptive work of Christ.
No. It is a practice of saying “I believe what this church body teaches!”
So I am NOT in communion with the Catholic church, and they are NOT in communion with me. They are Christians, but I can not take communion with them because of that.
My point was that to be "in Communion" with Christ is to be "in Communion" with the Church: and if you are receiving in the Catholic Church, at the very least your are saying you are in Communion with the Catholic Church.
But you have made it clear that you consider the Catholic Church to be detestable. Therefore why would you, or anyone of your persuasion, want to receive in the Catholic Church without being received INTO the Catholic Church?
There's a disconnect there.
And yet you started this particular section of the discussion by saying ( at #14) that you felt wronged and ostracized by not being welcomed into Catholic Communion.
Well, come o-o-oon in. You could join my RCIA (Adult Converts education) class. Seriously. It would be interesting.
I do not agree with certain Roman Catholic doctrine. Detestable is not the word I'd use to describe my feelings. Christian churches in general have failed miserably to walk in the Lord's prayer that we may be One. I believe arrogance and religious pride is at the root of disunity.
BTW - I am a follower of Christ and as such I am part of His body. Although I am baptized, I don't need a class or water baptism to confirm this reality. I have a relationship with Christ first, my family second, the church third and the world last.
I honestly don’t know. I guess I’m displaying my ignorance of Catholic things and I don’t mean to.
I’ve always thought we are all Christians, worshipping the same Father, Son and Holy Spirit, so I don’t understand the rigidity. On either side.
Please see my post 31, and I beg your indulgence. Some things I don’t understand, and I welcome your perspective.
But here's the thing, at least as far as Catholics are concerned. We are convinced, and would argue, that at the words of Consecration, the elements of the Eucharist --- bread and wine --- actually become the Body and Blood of Christ in a more-than-symbolic way. The Eucharist is not only consumed, but adored, and this is possible only because it is the whole, bodily, post-resurrection, "at the right hand of the Father," Christ.
He exists in a way which is bodily, and yet beyond time and space. This exceeds any human categorization or comprehension.
So we actually adore the Holy Eucharist.
I don't think any other Christian body of believers sees it that way, with the exception of the Orthodox and maybe other small Churches of the East. (Assyrian Church of the East, and so forth.)
So by receiving Communion, you're proclaiming this; and if you don't believe it, if you think this is in error, you ought not to receive.
This would be out of respect for the Catholics, in that you don't want to appropriate as a symbol what they believe is God; and out of respect for yourself, that you wouldn't want to participate in what you hold to be an error.
There's more, but that's it, basically.
Does that make sense?
Yes, it does, and thank you! I do appreciate the explanation.
Thank you for your understanding spirit.
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