Posted on 09/19/2017 6:22:17 PM PDT by hiho hiho
Dear ones,
I know you’re tired. Run down. Sad. Fed up. Angry, even.
I don’t blame you one bit.
I know the deep paucity you feel in your bones. The worst possible Sunday afternoon tragedy used to be a dry pot roast, a brown, leathery consequence of post-benediction parking lot conferences with Tom or Betty.
Now you go home, exhausted from the noise, bothered by the blatant emotional manipulation, haunted by the poverty you see. You’ve gone home angry and annoyed. You’ve wept over what they’ve done with your church, with THE church.
You know worship is supposed to be more than a rock show.
I know the people around you don’t get it, either. You’ve been told that you’re doing Satan’s work by daring to question the church growth strategists leaders in front of you.
They’ve said you’re hindering the work of the Holy Spirit.
You’ve been called a Pharisee.
A baby.
A curmudgeon.
An a-hole.
It’s been alleged that you’re callously indifferent to the eternal souls of the unchurched.
Even the ones you count as friends think you’re just pining for the good ol’ days. At the very least, you’re laughingly dismissed.
Your gifts have been shunned, ignored, wasted. Heck, I’ve been there, too, that time the paralegal became my boss.
Maybe you’ve been barred from your former places of service, replaced by an American Idol wanna-be with a hot mic and a six-string Ovation.
If you feel like you’re just barely hanging on, please let me offer this one piece of advice.
Leave. Just leave it all behind.
Dear brothers and sisters, if this is you, hear me out.
You can go. Yes, you can go.
I don’t say this lightly. There is real, unabashed grief in this prospect.
I know you have friends at your church. Maybe it’s the only spiritual home you’ve ever known. You’ve witnessed marriages there. You’ve rejoiced as your community has been shaped by water and Word. You’ve said goodbye to loved ones. You’ve given faithfully through the spiritual Advents and Christmases, the Lents and the Easters. You’ve cared together for the communities and the world around you. But it’s not the same place. Something’s changed, and it’s something that was never supposed to change. Not like this, anyhow.
Please know that if nobody else gets you, I do. I stand with you and honor you in your grief. You’re not being selfish or petty. You don’t have an attitude problem.
But let’s face it. It’s just not the same.
This beloved community, which once marked Sundays by coming together for the work of God’s people, is now a haven for entertainment. It’s a concert venue, really. If it weren’t for a few casual mentions of God and Jesus you wouldn’t even know they had anything to do with this whole thing.
Hale and hearty strains of disciplined worshipers are gone, and in their place, an electronic assault of primal, orgasmic ad libs.
Your script, your job, your voice have all been taken away, and now you just sit there, empty-handed, and empty-souled.
Songs of faith have been replaced by remarkably vapid, thoroughly mundane jesusy ditties.
The rhythm of the church year has given way to the mixed-metered syncopation of popular whim.
Sermons are guided by what the pastor says God is telling him (and it’s usually a him, unfortunately), not by a lectionary or a liturgical calendar.
Sacraments? What’s a sacrament? Commercial pop music is our new contemporary pseudo-sacrament.
There was once appropriate room for a complete range of human emotion, freely flowing from the retelling and reenactment of God’s mighty acts in Jesus Christ. Sobriety, grief, intentionality, urgency, repentance, lament resolution, thanksgiving, joy. And so forth and so on. Now, we’re expected to have fun. Church is the place for a good time, in Jesus’ thoroughly amusing name.
I’ve seen it too. This is how I grew up, in fact. I had a sneaking suspicion that there was more to church than the derivative music and self-aggrandizing topical sermon series. If there wasn’t, I’d have been through with church as soon as I moved out on my own.
Thank God that wasn’t it
Worshiper, please be honest. As tough as it is, you know you can’t stay here, biding the months or years or decades until by God’s grace you grow deaf, blind, and senile. You are right to feel this way. It isn’t a matter of taste or preference, whatever the entertainers may say.
You’re not being selfish. This is so much deeper than that.
The impetus for your grief is not hurt feelings, or even what’s happening with your own church. You grieve over what’s happened to the church.
This is worship, for God’s sake. And they’ve pulled it up by the roots. Dear Christian, just go.
You have my blessing, even if you have no one else’s.
Go home and rest. Go home and heal. Go home, and don’t come back.
Go home and stay, if you have to. For a while, at least.
When your alarm clock chimes next Sunday, hit the snooze. Turn it off. Let your pew stadium-style seat stay cold this week.
And next week, maybe.
Really, stay home for as long as it takes.
But don’t stay there forever.
After all, there are others who feel like you.
And there are still faith communities that have resisted preferential worship and consumer, little-C christianity.
You may have to look a little harder for them. They don’t have billboards. They don’t usually have huge crosses announcing their presence just for the hell of it. They probably don’t have TV commercials or radio spots or celebrity pastors.
You may have to go outside the faith tradition that’s become part of your identity. They might not sing all the same songs or use all the same language you remember. You might not agree with all their theology. There may be faithful followers there who vote differently than you. They might not even agree with you on every hot-button political issue. That’s okay. The church’s worship matters more than any of those things.
So when the buzzing in your ears has finally faded. When the fog has lifted. When the menacing waters of the entertainment church have finally receded. When you can breathe again, get back out there. When the post-traumatic worship disorder has released, start burning the early Sunday oil again.
Find a place where you can sit and rest and not be triggered.
Find a place where you can go and participate and just be part of the church once more.
Find a place where all voices have a prayer to pray, a song to sing, a sermon to say, and a common story to tell.
Find a place where “The body of Christ, broken for you,” means so much more than “It’s who I am, it’s who I am, it’s who I am.”
Find a place where Table, Font, and Pulpit haven’t been displaced by drum cage, music stand, and Madonna mic.
Find a place where the generational arrogance doesn’t obscure the multi-directional vision of true Christian worship.
And be a part of the worshiping community once again.
I won’t blame you if you go and never come back.
I’ll understand. That could have been me, too.
But, dear brother and sister, you matter.
And the church matters.
So, please go, but don’t stay gone forever.
Love,
Jonathan
What is the critical thing on which you disagree with MacArthur?
>>> What denomination does that? Works cannot save.
All of them... but let me be more specific as to how...
While I don’t officially label myself as a “baptist”, I prefer that denomination over all others specifically because of the doctrine of Eternal Security.
The baptists seem to be exclusive in their teaching of once saved always saved. Without going into detail, it is my conclusion that if you reject the doctrine of Eternal security in favor of free will, then salvation by works is required... For if there is something you can do to LOSE your salvation, then there must be something which you MUST do in order to maintain it.
With that said, I am sick and tired of reading in baptist quarterlies about how brave, or courageous, or whatever the apostles were. I’m sick and tired of reading questions which ask me to compare myself to them or others... all in an effort by the way to teach christians how to be better christians. They miss the mark. Look at how Paul considered himself. I don’t think God wants us to be focused on ourselves in any way. He wants us focused upon Him. “Seek ye first the Kingdom, and all these other things will be added.” While it may be unintentional, they are teaching works salvation by implication and misdirected focus.
The works teachings are not outright or official. They are very subtle and indicative of worldly influence.
My statement was that of personal opinion.
Take any denominational literature you like, and browse through it....
Start keeping score with every statement or question that is posed, and ask yourself where is the focus directed?
If it is focused on self, then score one for works.
If it is focused on God, then score one for Grace.
See what your scorecard reads at the end.
Did you also feel ill reading about Jesus and what He faced? You want Eternal Security but without the works, huh? I've got bad news.
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?
>>>You want Eternal Security but without the works, huh? I’ve got bad news.
First you said that works cannot save. You were correct.
Now you say this?
Make up your mind about what you believe before presuming my own thoughts.
Worship leaders highlighting their incredible talent, can make it all about the incredibly talented. Do you think God cares if the people in the pews sing off key? He is after our hearts. “Man looks on the outside, but God looks on the heart”. Yes,God does give talents, but that talent comes with a huge responsibility -— and I’m not referring to making sure you don’t miss a note. It is difficult to remain a humble servant, when all eyes and ears are on you and your talent. Not impossible, but very difficult. Perhaps if the worship leaders sang out of sight, it would be easier. Being “on stage” can turn into quite a temptation.
A worker is worthy of his wages, and you shall not muzzle an ox as he treads. I’m in favor of pastors being paid a living wage. Being a pastor IS a full-time job. I’m not a pastor or a pastor’s family member, and while pastors shouldn’t be living in the lap of luxury, their salaries should meet their needs and allow them to save for the future.
Absolutely.
Jesus was the personification of love. He healed anyone and everyone who came to him, but he was firmly set against the doctrine of the Pharisees.
Jesus is soft and warm without being mushy or wishy washy, and firm and resolute without being harsh.
In case you don’t know it, Paul is talking to people who had decided they had to go back to trusting in their following the Jewish law AND traditions. He preached obedience all throughout the NT, and not just obedience to the words that speak of grace. We all talk about the “ten” commandments, but there were actually many hundreds of commandments that Moses taught the people. Of course, looking from the end to the beginning, we can see that He was giving them pretty much an impossible task, so that they would realize they needed a Savior. Because if they missed just one of those laws, they might as well have missed them all, as far as being righteous was concerned. And then, having mercy on them, that they would not despair, He in taught them the system of sacrifices to cover their sins, which,of course, unbeknownst to them, was a shadow of Jesus sacrifice to come. Then He gave them hundreds of years to understand the sacrifice that their sin required, and even then, not many figured it out. It’s true, our own righteousness is as filthy rags, but that doesn’t mean we can knowingly, openly sin, because of it. We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. THAT is what grace is. And if that is so, we must obey the commandments Jesus requires -— that we love the LORD God with all our hearts and all our souls and all our minds, AND love our neighbor as ourselves, for in those two commandments, are ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. Jesus said that. He knew that if we would do those two things, we would be pleasing unto God. And, yes, He knew that we wouldn’t be able to be blameless, any more than the Israelites could, but He does expect us to try, just as the Israelites were expected to try. If he didn’t want us to try to obey those two commandments, He wouldn’t have spoken them, because no barren words fell from His lips. Following those commandments don’t save us, it is grace that saves us, but He still gave them to us, to follow.
>>> Nothing about coasting on Gods dime.
Presumptuous for you to say this about anybody. You don’t know that about me or anyone else, and you certainly cannot presume everyone is like that who believes in their eternal security.
>>> If you are truly deep down saved you want to do more to please God.
No argument from me on this... its a true statement.
However, security means that NOBODY can take me from God’s arms... even myself. The rewards God has prepared for me in heaven may be given for my obedience, or they may be burnt up for my “coasting”.
The race Paul referred to was for a prize we receive in heaven. Salvation is NOT that prize. The prize is SECONDARY and SEPARATE from our salvation. Some will be rewarded FAR more than others... but salvation itself can ONLY come from what JESUS did. not us.
WE ARE the prize and reward given to Jesus for His sacrifice.
Mixing works with Grace for salvation is blasphemous, and robs Jesus of that glory.
Lordship Salvation. And, before you start, I don’t want to have a debate about it. He believes in it; I don’t. Simple as that.
I truly felt betrayed when I saw this in his church. I’d traveled twenty miles to hear him exposit the Word; instead I received “America’s Got Talent!”
Peace be unto you.
and unto you.
>>Presumptuous for you to say this about anybody. You don’t know that about me or anyone else, and you certainly cannot presume everyone is like that who believes in their eternal security.<<
Patronizing Christians are the worst. I just got into it with another thru Freepmail who suggested that Satan had stolen my joy. He then prescribed some sermons for me to listen to. What prompted this was was critizing modern Christian ostentation. (stage performance, Christian marches).
When one is patronized by another believer, it is sinful, presumptive arrogance on the one hand. On the other it is an insult to the recipient. Things are allowed to get personal if I open the door to that and say “Give me your advice.”
On the other topics covered on your post, I very much agree:
>>The race Paul referred to was for a prize we receive in heaven. Salvation is NOT that prize. The prize is SECONDARY and SEPARATE from our salvation. Some will be rewarded FAR more than others... but salvation itself can ONLY come from what JESUS did. not us.<< (That’s solid, advanced Bible doctrine).
For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.Rom 7:5-6, 8, 10-11,13.sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.
He also rebuked the Galatians saying,
This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?Galatians 3:2-3.
No, God does not want us to continue in that which is passing away, the law which is the ministry of condemnation that only ministers death.
God who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.2 Cor 3:6-11.
Good strong post. I appreciated it.
Decades ago McArthur’s church was pretty basic and traditional until it became more important to him to get crowds and big numbers than focus on the Gospel. He wrote the “Forword” for a book my cousin wrote, and I don’t understand why he ask JM to do that considering his current perspective on things. Oh, well... not my business.
When we lived in Simi Valley we would go to their Christmas concerts sometimes. We were looking for big production numbers, and we got them!
Part of it is the stage, but another is the idea that “they” can do things and have talents the people in the pew do not.
Their songs are usually written, even if they use an old favorite” with soaring arpeggios and difficult rhythmic melodies and a host of other notes and phrasings which the normal person in the pew cannot follow.
This normally shuts them down, so they either sway in time with the music or stand silently in receipt. But God does not want us to just receive, He wants us to make a joyful NOISE unto the Lord. As you said, He doesn’t care if the music is in tune, but if the heart is in tune.
The worship team cares about the music being in tune, so that they can sell their next CD or worship music.
Apparently, young Jonathan claims authority to pick and choose which verses actually matter—I'd wager he uses a red-letter Bible, too.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.