The "Ecumenical Mass" Has Started

Gloria TV ^ | September 16, 2017 | Gloria TV

[boatbums]

Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.

So much is wrong in this assertion! First of all, one BECOMES part of the church/called-out ones/assembly when he/she receives/believes in Jesus Christ as Savior. We are living stones that make up the spiritual house of Jesus' habitation. Second of all, I KNOW that the Catholic church was NOT founded as necessary by God for salvation because see my first point. It is JESUS who is necessary for salvation not an assembly based in Rome that presumes to be the only way to Christ. I left the Roman church and refuse to rejoin it or remain in it - it teaches an accursed gospel (that's why I left).

[ebb tide]

We are living stones...

Like pet rocks or mood rings?

[boatbums]

We are living stones... Like pet rocks or mood rings?

Sorry, ET, if you don't understand the symbolism, take it up with the Holy Spirit who inspired St. Peter to write:

As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men, but chosen and precious in God’s sight, you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “See, I lay in Zion a stone, a chosen and precious cornerstone; and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” (I Peter 2:4-6)

[ebb tide]

I know what the bible says. And it never states that humans are living stones.

[boatbums]

I know what the bible says. And it never states that humans are living stones.

Oh, dear, I didn't think I would have to explain this to you. Nobody said "humans are living stones", Scripture says we believers as well as Jesus are "LIKE" living stones and that we together with Jesus Christ, the CHIEF cornerstone, comprise the spiritual house/temple of God. Is that more clear now? It is why we know that believers are THE church of Jesus Christ. It isn't a building or organization somewhere separate from actual human beings. It is through faith that we become joined with other believers TO Christ and we are HIS body and bride.

Here is that passage again for you:

As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men, but chosen and precious in God’s sight, you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “See, I lay in Zion a stone, a chosen and precious cornerstone; and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame.” (I Peter 2:4-6)

[Elsie]

LIKE I presume that you find it hard to understand that folks who believe that a wafer and wine ACTUALLY turn into the flesh and blood of Christ, do NOT believe that humans can turn into Living Stones.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I am sad that you left the Catholic Church without knowing some key things about it. You are right about you said about believing in Jesus Christ as Savior. If you believe in Him, you want to do what He told you to do, which means, you would be baptized. One becomes a member of the Catholic Church by baptism. If you are a baptized Christian, that means, in practice, that the Catholic Church recognizes the validity of your baptism,and the sacramentality of your marriage (if you are married), and would in case of necessity administer other Sacraments (such as, if you were in danger of death and you wanted to receive the Last Rites of the Church, you could).

You might want to say "Who cares?" but it follows from believing in Jesus Christ as Savior: you desire to be as close to Him as you can be, which includes receiving His Body and Blood, as He said in John 6.

I don't doubt for a minute that you love Him. That makes us sisters in Christ. That is an important and vital bond between us. And I would love for you to have everything He wants you to have.

[boatbums]

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. ;o)

[boatbums]

What “key things” do you think I don’t know about the Catholic church?

I know that you believe with all your heart that only the Catholic church has the “fullness” of the Christian faith but I disagree just as strongly. I don’t think you meant to be patronizing in your admonishments to me, but it comes across that way. I can tell you with all my heart that my faith and relationship with Jesus Christ is stronger and more close than I had ever experienced as a Catholic and I do not need to feel “recognized” by it in my baptism (of which I only count the second one as genuine since it was done AFTER I received Jesus Christ as my savior rather than as an oblivious baby) nor my marriage, which was performed by the pastor of our church in front of family and friends on our boat (not in the church building). I participate with fellow believers in the Lord’s Supper and, with every time, I am doing so as a testimony and a remembrance of my belief in Christ’s once-for-all sacrifice for my sins. ALL of these are recognized by Almighty God, and that’s what matters most.

Appreciate, as always, your kind replies. I wish it would rub off on more of your fellow FRomans. :o)

[Elsie]

I am sad that you left the Catholic Church without knowing some key things about it.

There ya go!

More proof of being poorly catechized!

(You'd think Rome would somehow fix it's flawed teaching method.)

[Elsie]

You are right about you said about believing in Jesus Christ as Savior. If you believe in Him, you want to do what He told you to do, which means, you would be baptized. One becomes a member of the Catholic Church by baptism. If you are a baptized Christian, that means, in practice, that the Catholic Church recognizes the validity of your baptism,and the sacramentality of your marriage (if you are married), and would in case of necessity administer other Sacraments (such as, if you were in danger of death and you wanted to receive the Last Rites of the Church, you could).

You might want to say "Who cares?" but it follows from believing in Jesus Christ as Savior:

you desire to be as close to Him as you can be, which includes receiving His Body and Blood, as He said in John 6.

 

 

AHHHhhh...

The 'selective' use of John's chapter six appears yet again on FR.

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John 6:25-40

²⁵ When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”

²⁶ Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. ²⁷ Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

²⁸ Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

²⁹ Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

³⁰ So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do? ³¹ Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’^[c]”

³² Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven. ³³ For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

³⁴ “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”

³⁵ Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. ³⁶ But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. ³⁷ All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. ³⁸ For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. ³⁹ And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. ⁴⁰ For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

[Elsie]

  If you believe in Him, you want to do what He told you to do, which means, you would be baptized. 

 

 

I wonder; when on the road to Damacus; Jesus FAILED to tell Paul about the baptism thingy??

 

 

1 Corinthians 1:11-17

 

¹¹ My brothers and sisters, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. ¹² What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas^[b]”; still another, “I follow Christ.”

¹³ Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? ¹⁴ I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, ¹⁵ so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. ¹⁶ (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) ¹⁷ For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

 

 

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And just WHY the Holy Spirit FAILED to inform the Early Church Fathers when they wrote that famous letter to the Gentiles in Acts 15??

 

Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem

 ¹ Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved." ² This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. ³ The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. ⁴ When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 ⁵ Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses."

 ⁶ The apostles and elders met to consider this question. ⁷ After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. ⁸ God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. ⁹ He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. ¹⁰ Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? ¹¹ No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

 ¹² The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. ¹³ When they finished, James spoke up. "Brothers," he said, "listen to me. ¹⁴ Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. ¹⁵ The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 ¹⁶ "'After this I will return
   and rebuild David's fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
¹⁷ that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things'
 ¹⁸ things known from long ago.

 ¹⁹ "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. ²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

The Council's Letter to Gentile Believers

 ²² Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. ²³ With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 ²⁴ We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. ²⁵ So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— ²⁶ men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. ²⁷ Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. ²⁸ It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: ²⁹ You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 ³⁰ So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. ³¹ The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. ³² Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. ³³ After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. ^{[34] 35} But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas

 ³⁶ Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing." ³⁷ Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, ³⁸ but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. ³⁹ They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, ⁴⁰ but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. ⁴¹ He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

 

 

[Elsie]

I know that you believe with all your heart that only the Catholic church has the “fullness” of the Christian faith but I disagree just as strongly.

Well; MORMONism makes the claim that only IT has the FULLNESS of the Gospel; too.

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Fullness?

 

 

 

 

 

Mormon Doctrine What Mormons admit to teaching, believing and practicing	Book of Mormon That is claimed to contain the FULLNESS of the GOSPEL
Heaven consists of three levels or "glories"; evil people go to the lowest, "hell" (D&C 76:81-90), the glory of which "surpasses all understanding. Only Mormon apostates do not go to heaven, but to "outer darkness" (D&C 76:31-39)	Only two possible fates after death: heaven or hell. Levels or degrees of heaven are not mentioned.
Jesus and God the Father are separate beings. (D&C 130:22)	Jesus and God the Father are the same. (Mosiah 3:8, 15:1-5, Ether 4:7, 12)
God has a body of flesh and bones. (D&C 130:22)	God is a spirit. (Alma 18:26-28)
God was once a man like us, and progressed to godhood. (TJS 342-345)	God does not change and has never changed. (Mormon 9:9, Moroni 8:18)
There are many gods. (TJS 370-373)	There is only one God. (Alma 11:28-30)
We can become gods ourselves. (D&C 76:58, TJS 342-345)	No mention of this idea.
We lived with God in a spirit world (a "premortal existence") before being born into this life. (D&C 49:17, 93:23-29, 138:55-56)	No mention of this idea.
God is the literal father of our spirits, conceived by him and our "Mother in Heaven" (MD 516)	No mention of this idea.
Mary conceived Jesus by natural means, namely, God the Father impregnated her. (MD 546-47, JoD 1:50-51, 8:115, 11:268)	Mary conceived Jesus "by the power of the Holy Ghost" (Alma 7:10), by being "carried away in the spirit" (1 Nephi 11:15-19)
Those who do not accept the gospel in this life will have the opportunity to do so after death, and can receive baptism by proxy (D&C 127, 128)	Salvation must be attained in this life; after one dies it is too late (Alma 34:34, 2 Nephi 9:38, Mosiah 2:36-39). No mention of baptism for the dead.
David and Solomon did nothing wrong by having many wives. (D&C 132:38-39)	The polygamy of David and Solomon was "abominable" to the Lord (Jacob 2:24)
Priesthood divided into an upper (" after the order of Melchizedek") and lower ("Aaronic") priesthood	No distinction between "priests" and "high priests"; priesthood is "after the order of [the Son of] God" (Alma 4:20, 13:1-12). No mention of "Aaronic" priesthood.
Salvation in the highest heaven ("exaltation") requires undergoing the "endowment" initiation ceremony in a temple, the details of which are kept strictly secret. The participants are required to take numerous oaths, which are also secret. Details	"Secret combinations" requiring secret oaths are condemned. (Mormon 8:27, 40, 2 Nephi 26:22, Helaman 6:22, and many others.) No mention of any such ritual as part of the gospel. No mention of "exaltation" or "endowment."
Exaltation requires marriage in a Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4)	No mention of this doctrine.
"Celestial marriage" lasts for time and all eternity. (DoS 2:58 ff)	No mention of this doctrine.
The "first resurrection" is only for the righteous. (D&C 76:64. 63:18)	The "first resurrection" is for all who died before Christ's resurrection, righteous and unrighteous alike (Mosiah 15:24, Alma 40:16-17)
The "idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man's heart" is false. (D&C 130:31; verse 22 says that it is the Holy Ghost that "dwell[s] in us")	"The Lord" dwells in the hearts of the righteous. (Alma 34:36)
The Lord's Supper ("the sacrament") consists of bread and water.	The Lord's Supper should consist of bread and wine. (3 Nephi 18:1-9, Moroni 5)
Only the priest blessing the sacrament kneels.	The priest is to kneel with the church while blessing the sacrament. (Moroni 4:2; see also D&C 20:76)
Use of alcohol, coffee, tea ("hot drinks") is forbidden. (D&C 89)	No such commandment.
Church is governed by the three men of the "First Presidency," higher in authority than the Quorum of Twelve.	Jesus placed twelve disciples over the church he founded in America. (3 Nephi 12, passim) No "first presidency" mentioned.
Except for Joseph Smith, all prophets are promoted to that office by those above them in rank, and by seniority. They work their way up to the top.	Prophets are called directly by God.
The church is trying to befriend people of other religions with the message "All churches have some truth"; "The church has always extended a hand of friendship and fellowship to those of other faiths, and will continue to do so."	There are two churches only: the true church and the "church of the devil," "the whore of Babylon" (1 Nephi 14:10-12). A church which seeks to become "popular in the eyes of the world" is of the devil. (1 Nephi 22:23)
Since 1978 the church claims that it is not racist, that all races are equal and that the color of a person's skin has no religious significance.	A dark skin is a curse from God, a punishment for one's unrighteousness (or the unrighteousness of one's ancestors). A dark skin can become light through righteousness. (1 Nephi 12:23, 2 Nephi 5:21, Alma 3:6, Mormon 5:15, Jacob 3:8-9, 3 Nephi 2:15)
The church teaches that faith, repentance, baptism are the "first principles" of the gospel, but that in order to obtain the highest degree of heaven, much more is required (obedience, tithes, endowment, etc.)	Christ says that the gospel is faith, repentance, baptism ONLY. Any teaching beyond that will lead to hell 3 Nephi 11:31-40

(Abbreviations)

D&C - Doctrine and Covenants
DoS - Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith (3 volumes)
JoD - Journal of Discourses (26 volumes)
MD - Mormon Doctrine, 2d edition, by Bruce R. McConkie
TJS - Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith

Citations under "Book of Mormon" are to its various books