Posted on 08/07/2017 10:33:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I believe we have far greater problems in the church these days than what people consume.
There was a guy who used to sidewalk preach in NC that used the money he raised to buy his liquor. His theology was more sound that what I hear today from guys who can fill an arena.
Lol... when I got married I had to “convert” to marry my Catholic, at that time, Wife.
I had to “give” something to the church... and a bottle of scotch to the priest...
“Grape juice” is a rather new invention.
Grapes by their nature & environment tend to ferment, period. Squash a grape, leave it exposed to a non-disinfected atmosphere, and it will start producing alcohol.
It was a Mr. Welch of not long ago that figured out how to preserve grape squeezin’s without fermentation.
Wine. It’s what grapes do.
To answer the question...I sure hope so! He and I have had a beer together on several occasions!
The Scriptures are pretty clear that consuming alcohol IN EXCESS is bad.
Mmmm beer
Eat, drink and be merry, but don’t fall into excess and a drunken stupor wherein temptation will get the better of many in such a state, that’s what the Bible appears to state as far as I’m able to tell from my own readings. Sorry, Baptists, it was not possible to have just plain grape juice in that era, it would have rapidly become a sickening swill filled with bacteria. It was shelf stable at room temperature, and it wasn’t vinegar. Therefore it had alcohol in it sufficient to be antimicrobial.
I was once told by a Methodist historian that Welch made a deal with the Methodist church, that he would provide grape juice for free for their communion. The good reason was to avoid alcohol even in communion; the real reason was to provide a sample of the product for prospective customers.
I grew up in a dry town in suburban south Jersey. The adjoining community’s main industry was providing alcoholic beverages to the citizens of the dry town. My Methodist parents both drank, to the consternation of the local pastor. I’ve been a Lutheran for three decades, and I am for all practical purposes a tee-totaler, with perhaps one glass of wine or tokkuri of sake a year.
Lol. I will now use that comment on non-drinkers at parties. Thank you :)
I completely disagree, both from scripture and from life/parenting.
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=wine&qs_version=NIV
Wine is mentioned many times in the Bible, both positively and negatively.
Genesis 19:32
Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
Genesis 27:28
May God give you heaven’s dew and earth’s richness— an abundance of grain and new wine.
Numbers 15:5
With each lamb for the burnt offering or the sacrifice, prepare a quarter of a hin of wine as a drink offering.
Deuteronomy 33:28
So Israel will live in safety; Jacob will dwell secure in a land of grain and new wine, where the heavens drop dew.
2 Samuel 13:28
Absalom ordered his men, “Listen! When Amnon is in high spirits from drinking wine and I say to you, ‘Strike Amnon down,’ then kill him. Don’t be afraid. Haven’t I given you this order? Be strong and brave.”
Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
Go, eat your food with gladness, and drink your wine with a joyful heart, for God has already approved what you do.
John 2:9-10
and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
Romans 14:21
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.
1 Timothy 3:8
In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
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As I read scripture, wine is one of life’s joys. The error and sin are in “much wine”.
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As a parent, I did not want alcohol to be “forbidden” and thus tempting. Instead, I allowed my children to drink at home if they wished - and I modeled very limited, controlled drinking. They tried it a few times, but not very much, just enough to not be very curious about drinking when they grew up. As far as I know none of them have been drunk. They learned to drink responsibly, both as I modeled it at home and as they experimented at home. It’s easy to control your drinking if you have a safe place to try it and learn that it’s no big deal away from peer pressure.
For ministers? I approve of limited, controlled drinking, even (especially?) in public, at least if they can drink responsibly. It’s good for their followers to see a responsible alternative to drinking to get as drunk as possible, as quickly as possible.
Only if there isn’t any good free wine for them!
Thank you both for the input. ive stuffed it in the noggin for future reference.
Yes to the question. Technically.
But it isn’t wise.
God invented beer so we Irish would not conquer the world.
An equally provocative and not-facetious question might be, “How great is the scourge of obesity, brought on by the sin of gluttony, to which many a church pot-luck super has contributed?” Given the rampage of obesity driven diabetes in our culture, perhaps preachers should also integrate exhortations on dietary moderation into their sermons.
Yes, in fact they can have more than one. Drink up.
This “tyranny of the weaker brother” nonsense is part of the ongoing infantilization of Christian faith. In short it turns Christians like John MacArthur into Social Justice Warriors, always offended by anything they do not choose to do.
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>> “I wondered how many people at the conference stumbled because of it.” <<
Not one who wasn’t already in the ditch!
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I can just hear them at the wedding feast: “Wow Jesus! This is the best watered down wine I have ever had!”
The word of God drives the point home in several ways:
1. The party was running out of wine.
2. The wine steward wanted to know why they served the best wine for last.
3. It was Jesus’ first miracle.
And people want to argue that the “ok for Christians” wine in the bible was watered down like O’Doul’s?
That is not rational.
BTW, O’Doul’s is “non-alcoholic”. It has “less than one half of one percent” alcohol. The same is true of Coke or a glass of water. The wording is specific and for a reason. It is considered so low on alcohol to be alcohol free.
BTW, when I stopped drinking for two years I would still drink O’Doul’s and thought it tasted like beer - until I had a real beer. That Rainier (which is the weak stuff) tasted like alcohol, strongly.
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