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To: grumpa
The reason for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is at least two-fold:

1- For the Bride of Christ, The Body of Christ to be outta here when the wrath of God is poured out in ever increasing severity

2- the evangelizing of humanity will be done by a chosen 144,000 JEWISH evangelists; Daniel's seventieth week, according to GOD, is to 'put an end to sin in Israel'. The Tribulation is about Israel, for the Age of Grace has ended with the snatching away of the Bride of Christ. And to be clear, the Rapture is not a hidden or secret event. It will cause devastation to civilization unseen in all of human History.

20 posted on 07/05/2017 7:52:58 PM PDT by MHGinTN (A dispensational perspective is a powerful tool for discernment)
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To: MHGinTN

“For the Bride of Christ, The Body of Christ to be outta here when the wrath of God is poured out in ever increasing severity”

That is true, but the wrath of God does not occur until AFTER the Great Tribulation.

First there is the time called “the beginning of sorrows.” Then there is the Great Tribulation. Then the sun and moon will be darkened and the powers of heaven shaken. (This marks the end of the Great Tribulation and the arrival of the Day of the Lord.) And then Christ Returns simultaneously with the arrival of the Day of the Lord / Day of Christ / Day of Wrath.

All of the trumpet and bowl judgments of Revelation take place during this time period—i.e. the Day of the Lord, and NOT the Great Tribulation.

“the evangelizing of humanity will be done by a chosen 144,000 JEWISH evangelists”

Then who are the Christian martyrs in Revelation 6:9? The 144,000 are not sealed until the uncountable multitude of last generation Christians are caught up to the throne room of Heaven. See Revelation 7. Where do these come from? Out of the Great Tribulation. When you answer the question of how they get to Heaven, you will be a pre-wrath rapurist, also.

“The Tribulation is about Israel”

The Great Tribulation will come upon all the earth.

Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Here is the distinction:

1. Daniel’s seventieth week will begin with a false world peace. (See Revelation 6, and the Olivet Discourse in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.)

2. In the middle of the seven-year period, the antichrist will defile the third temple and set up his throne there, beginning the Great Tribulation. At this time there will be a great, world-wide persecution of Christians. And many who claim to be Christians (but follow the false Christ) will commit the same sin as Judas by betraying the real Christians. (The Jews will also be an immediate target for persecution by the antichrist at this time.)

3. Signs and wonders in the second heaven will demarcate the end of the Great Tribulation and will immediately proceed the Day of the Lord when God will pour out judgments of fire on the earth.

In 2 Thessalonians 1, Paul describes the rapture of the Church. We know it is the rapture because he says that it will be at this coming of Christ that they will receive rest and respite from their persecution and trials. However, he also describes this same event as Christ arriving with holy angel and flaming fire to take vengeance on the unbelieving world. But Daniel’s seventieth week clearly begins with peace, not judgements of fire.

The other issue is that there is going to be strong delusion. Israel will not come to national repentance at the beginning of Daniel’s seventieth week. Yet there are martyrs. How are they Christians if there is no one on earth left to preach the Gospel to them, and the 144,000 have not yet been sealed? How do they overcome the strong delusion that God is going to send upon the unbelievers? Christ said that the deception will be so strong that even the elect would fall for it if that was possible.

All of these things only fit together in order if Christ is coming after the Great Tribulation and just before the Day of Wrath.

The pre-tribulational rapture view arises from an incorrect understanding of the dispensations. This day of superabounding grace will continue until the Day of the Lord. There will be no going back to Old Testament dispensations of Law. Christ has already come, and died, and rose again. Israel will rebuild the temple and implement the daily sacrifices, but Israel will follow antichrist and not God. Only after Christ returns at the end of the Great Tribulation will they “look on Him they have pierced” and be brought to repentance. Peter identified the start of the Church as part of this final dispensation in which the Holy Spirit is poured out, and this time period clearly includes from then until the Day of the Lord arrives:

Acts 2:17-21
And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.

Peter and Paul both quote this last verse from the passage in Joel 2, and apply it to our salvation in this current dispensation. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to cause people to cry out to Christ and, from the heart, call Him “Lord.” This is part of the salvation process. And yet it originates from this passage in Joel about the end of the world and God’s wrath being poured out.

It is very important for the Church today to correctly understand that we are required to go through the Great Tribulation and persevere in our faith during these difficult days when they come. The hope of Christ’s return is not to escape tribulation but the wrath of God which will come on all of the earth after the church is raptured out.


29 posted on 07/05/2017 11:48:57 PM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: MHGinTN

2- the evangelizing of humanity will be done by a chosen 144,000 JEWISH evangelists;


I believe the 144000 went with Jesus when he was resurrected.

Hosea 6;2
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight

1 Cor 15:20
But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. past tense, already happened.

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Past tense- already happened.

Glorified ( resurrected ).


40 posted on 07/06/2017 12:03:54 PM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible does not say it in plain words, please don`t preach it to me.)
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To: MHGinTN
It will cause devastation to civilization unseen in all of human History.

The removal of the restrainer.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
41 posted on 07/06/2017 12:40:56 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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