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The Problem of Catholic Pretenders
Crisis Magazine ^ | June 23, 2017 | K. E. COLOMBINI

Posted on 06/23/2017 6:21:23 PM PDT by NYer

Catholics always have been taught that the word “catholic” means “universal,” and arguably one of the hallmarks of the Catholic faith is that it recognizes no borders; while there are many rites, of which the Latin is the predominant one, there is one truth, one set of dogma.

As I consider this from St. Louis, Missouri, where my family and I have lived since 2000, I realize something must be askew with Catholic pretenders who crave independence over universality.

Several years ago, to greatly simplify a convoluted local history, a St. Louis parish operated for the benefit of the local Polish community split off from the archdiocese. Its parishioners, or, rather, a majority of its board of directors, decided that its church property was more important than Catholic unity. After years of wrangling, a settlement with the archdiocese ended the matter finally, with the breakaway Catholics, led by a defrocked and excommunicated priest, retaining control of their buildings.

St. Stanislaus Kostka was, and remains, a pretty church. It’s not grandly and gloriously beautiful like our cathedral, or the oratory at St. Francis de Sales. Rather, it’s what I’d call working-class beautiful, and far better than many of the suburban parishes built west of the city in the 1970s. St. Louis once earned the nickname “Rome of the West” because of the beauty of many of its older churches, an outward symbol of the faith and loyalty of the Catholics who built them.

While the battle over St. Stan’s was originally a property dispute, it evolved into something else. For with this property dispute, a virus was planted in the parish that led the parishioners away from Catholicism. St. Stan’s has become one of those churches that are merely posing to be Catholic, while embracing the wrong side of so many battles the Church is facing, especially those around sex and gender. It’s what one would call, in the euphemism of the day, a welcoming parish, welcoming visiting dissident celebrities and women priests and feeling more than welcome to join the city’s annual gay pride parade.

Oddly, however, despite its size and its stature in the progressive community, St. Stan’s isn’t alone. There’s St. Catherine of Siena, also located in St. Louis, where services are held in a former Lutheran church. It considers itself an “Independent Catholic Church,” but also considers itself part of the “Synodal” Catholic Church.

Not too far north of St. Catherine, on the other side of Forest Park in the city’s Central West End, and also not too far from our cathedral, lies the St. Therese of Divine Peace “Inclusive RC Community.” It has no qualms about claiming to be Roman Catholic; its pastor is a woman affiliated with Roman Catholic Womenpriests. Its offices and chapel space are courtesy the local First Unitarian Church.

Another “Catholic” church, Sts. Clare and Francis, operates in neighboring Webster Groves as part of what’s called the Ecumenical Catholic Communion. Its offices are at Eden Theological Seminary, affiliated with the United Church of Christ. The pastor is a former Catholic priest who left the church in 1990 because he couldn’t accept celibacy, and is now married to another man.

A little further west, in the city of Creve Coeur, Sts. Peter and Paul is part, not of the Ecumenical Catholic Communion, but the “Ecumenical Catholic Church+USA.” It holds its services at an Episcopal parish church, St. Timothy’s. The pastor is both a bishop in the church, and gainfully employed in local law enforcement.

Across the Missouri River further to the west, in St. Charles County, one comes across Christ the King Ministries and Mission Catholic Church, a storefront church which calls itself part of the schismatic “Brazilian Rite” of the Catholic Church.

In a metropolitan area with such a strong Catholic presence, these churches are relatively insignificant outliers. They also are common to other cities. What is remarkable about them, and why should we be at least a little concerned about them?

Consider what they have in common. They all claim Catholic roots, and those who run them are quick to tout ordination under apostolic succession and some sort of tie to the obscure Old Catholic breakaway after Vatican I. They diverge from their Catholic roots on radically similar lines, dealing primarily with the usual sex-and-gender issues, promoting open communion for the divorced and remarries and those living gay lives. They accept female priests, and married priests. Two of the churches, at least, do not use the new translation of the Mass, but the one that preceded it.

When it comes to the sacraments, one of the challenges is that they can pose as being traditionally Catholic, such as in promoting wedding services. Hence, one of the priests operates a business and website, where he acknowledges that “many Catholics—and others—are searching for an inviting, sacramental wedding experience with the richness of the Catholic tradition yet different from that offered by the Roman Catholic Church.”

Reading this website, one comes away with the idea that “the richness of Catholic tradition” that is different from one in a Catholic church means a wedding in a park or on a beach, between two people who probably should not be marrying each other. At the same time the priest promises the richness of Catholic tradition, he throws it out the window: “Whatever your background, we will make sure that your wedding reflects and honors your beliefs.”

Such churches and services can only confuse those who don’t know enough to know better. For a long time, our local newspaper, the Post-Dispatch, ran church advertisements in its paltry Religion section on Saturdays. Under the Catholic category, one would find one or two Catholic churches, but also Sts. Peter and Paul mentioned above, with no differentiation. Likewise, people searching online for Catholic wedding services can easily be confused. Unfortunately, there is little the archdiocese can do about it, since these churches don’t respect canon law.

There are, however, two things the local church should do. First, ensure that Catholic adults have a clear understanding of Catholic teaching around these issues. Address them in an open and positive way—because our message is a fundamentally positive one. Second, call out the pretenders by name. Make clear to Catholics that these churches and services are not Catholic, despite what they advertise, and that they are to be avoided. If there are any ways in particular that these phony Catholic websites are misrepresenting themselves and skirting the truth and painting themselves as something they are not, make that known.

Catholics have an obligation to the truth, and spiritual works of mercy include instructing the ignorant and admonishing the sinful. Both of these may be called for in this situation, and mainstream Catholics, lukewarm as we can be sometimes, deserve to know the truth and need to hear it.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Moral Issues; Worship
KEYWORDS: cino; homosexualagenda; religiousleft
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To: HLPhat
Well that’s definitive. It’s a boast they made more than once.

Should be easy to get a better link then.

Which of course is why Luther's likeness is used to “celebrate” the Reformation’s Anniversary instead of something more appropriate - like imagery representing the good news of the risen Christ.

And Paul was a murderer, Peter denied His Lord, Moses/David murderers, God uses the weak for His purposes.

Have they weighed in on the differences between the version of The Jews And Their Lies published by CPH and earlier translations?

Don't know, don't care. You should know since it of concern to you. I don't read the Koran either.

Stupid priesthood of all believers.

This has what do do with all believers' access to God? Were you called to be a pastor? Or a theologian? Most aren't and that's why there is a CTCR. Of course you can disagree but that makes you on par with an elcan, out of communion with LCMS.

41 posted on 06/24/2017 2:41:32 PM PDT by xone
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To: HLPhat
Uhuh. Evidently “they”, along with discussing the motivational history of Nazi Germany, didn’t have any place in the LCMS’ History curriculum, either.

Ha, on the witness of a Nazi Propagandist, strong witness there, they never lie. Just as likely that the Nazis just followed the Catholic church's attitude towards Jews for two millenia. The Nazi leadership was supposedly Catholic as well.

Stupid History — Why learn from it when it’s so profitable to repeat its “mistakes”!

What mistakes? Is there a big anti-Jew push in confessional Lutheranism?

42 posted on 06/24/2017 2:46:07 PM PDT by xone
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To: xone

>>Should be easy to get a better link then.

All you gotta do is search Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=LCMS%20more%20catholic%20than%20catholic

That too hard for ya?

Referenced by “The Lutheran Reformation”
October 31, 2016

And again on

The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod
February 22 2017


43 posted on 06/24/2017 2:52:39 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: xone

>>Ha, on the witness of a Nazi Propagandist,

Not required.

Luther’s bitter drunken rantings are a sufficient witness of the character therein.


44 posted on 06/24/2017 2:57:16 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: xone

>>What mistakes?

Not honestly teaching about ALL of Luther’s writings in the context of indoctrinating children by having them memorize and regurgitate his words.


45 posted on 06/24/2017 3:01:42 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: HLPhat
What mistakes? Not honestly teaching about ALL of Luther’s writings in the context of indoctrinating children by having them memorize and regurgitate his words.

Does Luther have scriptural references for TJATL? Didn't think so. The 'regurgitated' writings do. TJATL isn't accepted doctrine, the rest is. Really isn't that tough. Did Pauls' pre-conversion musings have any value?

46 posted on 06/24/2017 3:13:27 PM PDT by xone
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To: HLPhat
Not required. Luther’s bitter drunken rantings are a sufficient witness of the character therein.

The Catholic stuff then? No forgiveness available in your world? God doesn't remember sins confessed, doesn't have to, there are people like you.

47 posted on 06/24/2017 3:15:45 PM PDT by xone
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To: HLPhat
All you gotta do is search Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=LCMS%20more%20catholic%20than%20catholic

No results.

48 posted on 06/24/2017 3:17:06 PM PDT by xone
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To: xone
>>God uses the weak for His purposes.

And excuses are like a certain part of common human anatomy.

“To this group belong not only the genuinely great statesmen but all the great reformers as well. Beside Frederick the Great we have such men as Martin Luther and Richard Wagner.“
http://greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf

From Luther’s own drunken screed it’s not too hard to see how Hitler may have been encouraged by Luther(ans) in his anti-Semitic proclivities.

Why bother to teach Lutheran school kids about those sorts of facts; especially when it’s impossible to dress Mein Kampf up with some sort of “best possible construction” B.S.

Better to just pretend he never wrote it; and that all the angels in heaven danced when Luther farted, or something.

>>Don’t know, don’t care

Uhuh.

49 posted on 06/24/2017 3:18:33 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: HLPhat
All you gotta do is search Facebook

Facebook isn't a resource in my world, no matter who's it is.

Googling 'more catholic than Catholics' return results where others (not LCMS) make that claim. LCMS response is 'Thanks'. Nothing wrong with small 'c' catholic.

50 posted on 06/24/2017 3:21:51 PM PDT by xone
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To: xone

“Featured Posts

The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod
February 22 ·
“You Lutherans are more catholic than the Catholics!” Thank you?”

https://www.facebook.com/TheLCMS/posts/10154681268553580?match=bW9yZSBjYXRob2xpYyB0aGFuLGJsb2dzLmxjbXMub3JnLGNhdGhvbGljcyxsY21z

Which is a “Share” of:

https://blogs.lcms.org/2016/luthers-catholic-reformation?utm_content=bufferf5609&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

The other ref in October cites/shares the same blog.


51 posted on 06/24/2017 3:23:25 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: xone

>>Facebook isn’t a resource in my world, no matter who’s it is.

LOL.

I’ll remember that next time POTUS Trump shares his weekly address video there.


52 posted on 06/24/2017 3:25:21 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: HLPhat
“To this group belong not only the genuinely great statesmen but all the great reformers as well. Beside Frederick the Great we have such men as Martin Luther and Richard Wagner.“ http://greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf From Luther’s own drunken screed it’s not too hard to see how Hitler may have been encouraged by Luther(ans) in his anti-Semitic proclivities.

Now you have Hitler as a witness as well. Awesome! He is truly reliable as a truthteller. Repeat none of Luther's TJATL is included in the doctrine of the Book of Concord.

Better to just pretend he never wrote it;

I know he wrote it, it isn't a discourse on the scripture it isn't doctrine, so it is irrelevant to me as a believer.

53 posted on 06/24/2017 3:27:04 PM PDT by xone
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To: HLPhat
LOL. I’ll remember that next time POTUS Trump shares his weekly address video there.

I don't follow any Facebook, ever. Self-absorbed BS run by a commie.

54 posted on 06/24/2017 3:29:13 PM PDT by xone
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To: HLPhat

>>isn’t a resource in my world

Uhuh.

Just like the Complete catalog of Martin Luther’s writings wasn’t part of the LCMS’ curricular “world” when they were indoctrinating children by having them selectively memorize and regurgitate Luther’s writings.

Just like the facts regarding the body of available knowledge relating to the Natural Selection of Binary Human Sexuality wasn’t acknowledged in LCMS’ selective curricular world after 1987.

That’s sure worked out awesome for the generation(s) of children who, having been kept ignorant, now can’t even figure out what sex they are.

Bravo “Reformers”!


55 posted on 06/24/2017 3:33:13 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: xone

>>Now you have Hitler as a witness as well

History is the witness.

Learning from it or not is a choice.

>>none of Luther’s TJATL is included in the doctrine of the Book of Concord.

And it’s not in the history curriculum of the LCMS’ schools, either.

That was a choice, too!


56 posted on 06/24/2017 3:36:09 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: xone

>>Self-absorbed BS run by a commie.

And yet the LCMS has a rather substantial presence there.

Seems they (or at least their social media manager) is spending more time propping up an “inclusive” image on social media than they’re devoting to providing useful opinion papers like those that, though dated, can still be found on their WWW page.

None of which, BTW, explains the discrepancies between CPH’s edition of Luther’s “Jews and Their Lies” and earlier translations.

Quite the lumpy carpet. It’s like they didn’t agree with Jefferson that “Truth is great and will prevail” or something!


57 posted on 06/24/2017 3:49:09 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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To: HLPhat
>>none of Luther’s TJATL is included in the doctrine of the Book of Concord. And it’s not in the history curriculum of the LCMS’ schools, either. That was a choice, too!

For the same reasons, not doctrine.

History is the witness. Learning from it or not is a choice

History? Mein Kampf is history? Hitler proclaimed anything he wanted, history shows he was wrong. As for learning from it: Again, is there a anti-Jew movement in the LCMS?

58 posted on 06/24/2017 3:49:27 PM PDT by xone
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To: HLPhat
nd yet the LCMS has a rather substantial presence there.

Got their doctrine there or the same old same old?

Seems they (or at least their social media manager) is spending more time propping up an “inclusive” image on social media than they’re devoting to providing useful opinion

Social media guy doesn't write those papers. So is your issue that they use Facebook?

None of which, BTW, explains the discrepancies between CPH’s edition of Luther’s “Jews and Their Lies” and earlier translations.

Like what?

Quite the lumpy carpet. It’s like they didn’t agree with Jefferson that “Truth is great and will prevail” or something!

Jefferson himself didn't agree with that himself. He cut out the parts of the Bible he didn't agree with. 'Truth' is found in scripture something to which the LCMS clings.

59 posted on 06/24/2017 3:55:05 PM PDT by xone
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To: xone
>>Jefferson himself didn't agree with that himself.
 
Baloney.  The 1st Amendment further codifies the thinking Jefferson articulated in the Virginia act.
 
 


"...who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time;
 
...
 
 that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them. "
 
"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"
--The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom
--Thomas Jefferson, 1786
 

60 posted on 06/24/2017 3:57:37 PM PDT by HLPhat (It takes a Republic TO SECURE THESE RIGHTS - not a populist Tyranny of the Majority)
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