Posted on 06/18/2017 2:47:29 PM PDT by narses
Not per the forum rules.
The failed attempt at logic by Roman Catholicism shows again.
Pope JP II had a commission study whether Mary should add co-Redeemer and co-Mediatrix to her titles. Francis is studying something similar. There were similar things under consideration in the 19th century. You underestimate the fervor of the Mary devotees. I think that is why the Gospels minimize the role of Mary after the birth of Jesus. Marian devotion can easily get out of hand.
I don’t believe anything happened. I believe people saw what they wanted to see, the people who stared at the sun for dozens of minutes at least. The people that didn’t saw nothing.
The fact that there are zero photographs when there were dozens of journalists and photographers at the site, the fact that accounts differ, and the fact that some people didn’t see anything points to the conclusion that it was pareidolia(like some people see a face in a cloud, some see nothing), etc.
People are going to believe what they want to believe though.
Protestants are Christians and therefore members of Christ's body, aka, the church.
Your argument that Mary and saints are not worshiped but only venerated - rings hollow to many Christians. Kissing crosses, parading statues of the saints (including Mary) through the streets, holding up gold monstrances with a communion wafer that you claim is the actual body and blood of Christ, buying masses to deliver from purgatory - and many other practices are contrary to what Christians see in scripture. The scripture shows that the Father, Son and Spirit are preeminent and to be worshiped - not the saints, not Mary. You treat your Catholic church as being equal to Christ and constantly throw out that 'one true church' cannard; it is not. The church, any church, does not save us. Traditions do not save us. Jesus saves us. Period!
You must have me confused with another poster.
Another failed attempt to control the forum.
As the mother of Jesus, could she have been sin free,so pure at heart that she alone was worthy to conceive the Son of God? And having reverence for Mary does not necessarily become worship. She is revered as the Mother of Jesus. No woman had ever before, or since achieved the level of holiness to become the mother of God but that doesn’t make her a part of the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. And when Mary replied to the angel that, yes, as the Lord wished, she was His handmaid. In what way does Mary detract from her Son and Him Crucified? At what point does Mary request adoration?
Esther saved a remnant of the Jewish people, and Jews still honor her. Yet her glory does not approach the importance of being the mother of Jesus. Is it wrong to ask Mary to pray for us, to intercede to her Son for us? If I were to ask my grandparents,who are either sleeping waiting for the awakening, or in heaven, to pray for me, am I putting them in Jesus’s place? If I asked a angel to help me, to pray for me at the throne of God, am I ascribing Godly power to a being,a being that IS supernatural?
After my mother died when I was 16, I wandered and sought the spiritual level,or understanding,so I would know why my mother, a devout catholic and good person had to die a slow agonizing death. And I had many spirit filled people who tried to help, some less spititual tried to blame it on the Roman Catholic Church, the seat of the antichrist they said, the whore on seven hills etc.etc.etc. Yet even in spirit filled churches and different denominations I never found that level of faith that allows a holy man to heal. I’m sure it happens yet at God’s whim. Because no man is perfect, save one. Faith in the holy nature of Mary in that she was found worthy to be the mother of the Christ is not a apostasy. She may have been nurtured by God or his angels to resist/avoid sin. But as in that I and millions of others revere Mary as the mother of God, we do not specifically worship her as The Christ. Jesus came from her womb, and that she was found worthy by God of this work makes her one of a kind, and worthy of honor.
And the Pharisees brought unto Jesus a woman, saying, "We caught this woman in the act of adultery. Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say?"
And Jesus wrote on the ground as though He had not heard them. Then he said, "Let whosoever is without sin among you cast the first stone."
At that moment, a small, round rock whizzed through the air, catching the poor woman square on the nose.
"MOMMMMM! Cut it out!"
;-)
How much more, someone already in Heaven...
Incidentally, with regard to John 14:6 says Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me”.
this is not contradicted by the Rosary.
The rosary is to draw us to Jesus; in fact, the intention for the fourth glorious mystery (the Assumption of Mary) is "To Jesus Through Mary".
Not, you know, "to the Father through Mary".
Not *exclusively* you know, but certainly one more heavenly trawling net to save lost souls and show them Eternal Mercy.
I have asked my wife a couple times to include me in her prayers when I was feeling bad.
That’s a long way from kneeling before a statue or picture of someone and praying to her/him.
Maybe you don’t do that, but I know for a fact that many do.
I believe it’s very common for all Christians to believe all of Jesus’ words in the Bible have a universal meaning, not just that that is appropriate to his immediate situation. Given that, I’m struck by the fact that no one seems to give a universal application to his words on the cross. John 19:25-27. I’m not going to type the whole thing out. “Woman, behold your son.” and “Behold your mother.”
In post 63 you ask the question, "Do protestants have a true Church?" I assumed that by your question you're asserting that papist churches constitute the one true church. It was to this point/assumption that I responded. Was my assumption wrong?
What's your point?
This sounds very nice and religious but respectfully, it's not the gospel. " For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Tim 2:15.
When you ascribe titles like mediatrix to a person and treat a person like a god, you are guilty of idoltry and breaking the 1st commandment.
Is Mary God's mother? Yes
Is she blessed above all women? Yes
Is she to be loved, esteemed and honored? Yes.
Is she everything the Catholic church teaches about her? No.
Re: https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/marya4.htm
What's your point?
As you and I examine the scriptures, we do not see Mary in the role of Mediatrix. We do not see her sinless. These are all Catholic traditions but they are not the gospel.
If you find comfort asking your mother to pray for you to Jesus, I would not condemn you but I would encourage you to read the scripture and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal truth. Particularily in this day and age, we see feelings and sentimentality supplanting truth. Let us not be deceived.
Read my post 97.
Much of the discussion on the thread was about Catholics ‘worshiping’ Mary. It’s not worship. I believe Catholics honor Mary in a way Jesus told us to do from the cross.
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