Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: daniel1212; Elsie; All
It is not I who am example mental deficiency here (though i certainly am no genius) but you..

I call you a "genius" and you call me a "mental deficient". A fine example of the real "Christian" fruit you bare, no doubt. ;)

As for the question before us, the relative ages of Mary and Joseph, I provide another text. But first, a short word from someone concerning these additional scriptures/texts:

“…the word apocrypha as it is a word that is greatly misunderstood. It comes from Greek and is formed from the combination of apo (away) and krytein (hide or conceal). Thus, it signifies that which is ‘hidden away’ or ‘concealed’. Apocryphan is the singular form and apocrypha the plural. These words are used to describe the nature of a certain body of ancient religious writings. The word apocrypha, like many other words has undergone a major change in meaning throughout the centuries. With regard to these ancient books, the word apocrypha ORIGINALLY MEANT A TEXT TOO SACRED AND SECRET TO BE IN EVERYONES HANDS. It needed to be hidden away and reserved for the spirituality mature. It was a term of dignity and respect. To those who revered the apocryphal books, they were ‘hidden’ because they contained teachings that were too sacred to be revealed except to the initiated.” From Forgotten Women of God By Diana Webb page xiv

You can find more information about apocryphal books here:

https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/30/marriage-of-mary-to-joseph-the-carpenter/

Make sure you review the information concerning the book of Hebrews, or research it online, you might find it interesting.

For another source of evidence of the ages of Mary and Joseph, please examine History of Joseph the Carpenter.

The History of Joseph the Carpenter is one of the texts within the New Testament apocrypha concerned with the period of Jesus' life before he was 12. The most interesting thing about the story is that it is narrated by Jesus himself in a narrative told to his disciples while they were on the Mount of olives.  
The story in one concerning the life of Joseph, his stepfather. In it, Jesus agrees with Mary's continued virginity. The text explains the relationship between Jesus and his brothers and sisters by stating that Joseph had four sons named Judas, Justus, James, and Simon and two daughters called Assia and Lydia by a previous marriage.  
At age 90, after the death of his first wife, Joseph is given charge of the twelve year old virgin Mary. She lives in his household raising his youngest son James 'the less' along with Judas, until the time she is to be married at age 14.
We must remember that marriage at that time was not like it is today. Marriage had more to do with consummation than living arrangement. Mary may have lived with Joseph at age 12, but they would not have been considered married until they had sex. The exception would be when a man decided to keep a woman as his wife but keep her virginity.  
After this basic background, the text proceeds to paraphrase the Gospel of James, stopping at the point of Jesus' birth. The text states that Joseph was miraculously blessed with mental and physical youth, dying at the age of 111.
Joseph's death takes up approximately half of the work. At the conclusion of the text, Jesus affirms that Mary remained a virgin throughout her days by addressing her as "my mother, virgin undefiled." The words “virginity” and “undefiled” in this context must relate to sexual relations and not to the traumas of childbirth.  
The Text says "And the holy apostles have preserved this conversation, and have left it written
After this basic background, the text proceeds to paraphrase the Gospel of James, stopping at the point of Jesus' birth. The text states that Joseph was miraculously blessed with mental and physical youth, dying at the age of 111. Joseph's death takes up approximately half of the work. At the conclusion of the text, Jesus affirms that Mary remained a virgin throughout her days by addressing her as "my mother, virgin undefiled." The words “virginity” and “undefiled” in this context must relate to sexual relations and not to the traumas of childbirth.   The Text says "And the holy apostles have preserved this conversation, and have left it written
The Encyclopedia of Lost and Rejected Scriptures: The Pseudepigrapha and Apocrypha (Kindle Locations 25540-25551). Fifth Estate. Kindle Edition.

A link to the book "The History of Joseph the Carpenter" can be found here: http://www.masseiana.org/history_of_joseph.htm

75 posted on 03/23/2017 4:49:02 PM PDT by amorphous
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies ]


To: amorphous; daniel1212
Well genius, you might want to let authors in the OT, who mention the book of Jasher at least twice, know about that, and also Paul who writes in Timothy that ALL scripture/texts should be used to understand the Word - paraphrasing.

You are the one who started the insulting which is seemingly the standard playbook of catholics and liberals when the argument goes against them.

You line of reasoning in this thread thus far substantiates what daniel1212 has written.

76 posted on 03/23/2017 4:57:50 PM PDT by ealgeone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies ]

To: amorphous
I call you a "genius" and you call me a "mental deficient". A fine example of the real "Christian" fruit you bare, no doubt. ;)

Actually this latest ad hominem is another example of a double standard or blindness, for it was you who sarcastically called me "genius" ("Well genius, you might want to let authors in the OT...know about that"), inferring mental deficiency on my part, and my substantiated reasoned response an "attempt to further muddy the waters, that, and your need to spout off." So much for self-righteous "Christian" fruit.

“…the word apocrypha as it is a word that is greatly misunderstood. It comes from Greek and is formed from the combination of apo (away) and krytein (hide or conceal). Thus, it signifies that which is ‘hidden away’ or ‘concealed’. Apocryphan is the singular form and apocrypha the plural..., the word apocrypha ORIGINALLY MEANT A TEXT TOO SACRED AND SECRET TO BE IN EVERYONES HANDS.

Your already marginal credibility continues to degrade. You first invoke a feminist (likely Mormonic) whose interest is in finding women of God - whom she seems to think is plural - and by skullduggery asserts that God meant for women to be "equal partner to her husband, corresponding to him in every way," even to be his savior.

Seeking female heroes, she finds women from Pseudepigrapha - falsely-attributed works - and apocryphal works, and thus she tries to elevate such works as being TOO SACRED AND SECRET TO BE IN EVERYONES HANDS based on the "original meaning of apocrypha, " which etymologically is from Greek apokryphos "hidden; obscure, hard to understand...from apo "off, away" (see apo-) + kryptein "to hide" (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Apocrypha)

However, "cute" used to mean bow-legged; "bully" originally meant darling or sweetheart; "Nice" originally meant stupid or foolish; "counterfeit" used to mean a legitimate copy, and the way this word apocrypha was used is the issue. And rather than meaning that the apocrypha were considered too sacred and secret to be in everyone's hands, Jerome described the extra 7 Old Testament books as apocrypha, and it was not because they were secret, but were actually part of later versions of the Greek LXX, which likely existed by the 2nd century.

Thus your conspiratorial "TOO SECRET TO BE IN EVERYONES HANDS" is simply inaccurate.

You can find more information about apocryphal books here: https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/30/marriage-of-mary-to-joseph-the-carpenter/

So now you send me to a Muslim site, " dedicated to providing constructive responses and refutations against Islamophobes" as a credible source? "Asalam o Alikum Brother, you are doing a very noble and good job mashALLAH."

Which is where you get your error that "Joseph [was] 90 years old when married" among other fables? This is the same Muslims who (faced with their leader taking a 9-year-iold bride) assert that Dinah (who left home to visit the daughters of the land) in Gn. 34 at the time of her marriage was no older than 7-years-old (based on the LIE that the word for "damsel" in Genesis 34:3 must mean "child” and “infant” here, contrary to its use . And that Rebecca was between the ages of 3-10, when she was married off to 40-year-old Isaac. How far in the bottom of the rubbish barrel do you have to resort to?

Make sure you review the information concerning the book of Hebrews, or research it online, you might find it interesting.

You mean another late (6th or early 7th century) wannabe from Egypt?

The more you argue the more you are an argument against yourself.

84 posted on 03/23/2017 6:46:22 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies ]

To: amorphous
The Encyclopedia of Lost and Rejected Scriptures:

HMMMmmm...

I wonder why ROME didn't want them?

95 posted on 03/24/2017 5:21:14 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson