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To: kosciusko51; metmom; Elsie

When studying the Bible, it is important to let the scriptures guide your theology rather than impose an external theology on to the scriptures.

“For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God’s light; they tasted heaven’s gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; 5 they knew from experience that God’s word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. 6 And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame.... 11 Our great desire is that each of you keep up your eagerness to the end, so that the things you hope for will come true.”

Either the writer of Hebrews was talking about Christians falling away, or he was being deceptive. And I don’t believe in allowing an external philosophy (Calvinism) to force me to conclude the writer of scripture is lying.

Galatians:

“8 In the past you did not know God, and so you were slaves of beings who are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or, I should say, now that God knows you—how is it that you want to turn back to those weak and pitiful ruling spirits? Why do you want to become their slaves all over again? 10 You pay special attention to certain days, months, seasons, and years. 11 I am worried about you! Can it be that all my work for you has been for nothing?...8 In the past you did not know God, and so you were slaves of beings who are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or, I should say, now that God knows you—how is it that you want to turn back to those weak and pitiful ruling spirits? Why do you want to become their slaves all over again? 10 You pay special attention to certain days, months, seasons, and years. 11 I am worried about you! Can it be that all my work for you has been for nothing?”

We are encouraged, again and again, to stay the course. Why would we need encouragement to stay the course if there was no possibility of doing otherwise?

And as a practical matter, it makes no difference. I had a friend in college, decades ago, who became a Christian. He led a number of others to Christ. He was active, involved, and NO ONE doubted his sincerity - including him. Three years later, he walked into the living room and told us he had become a Buddhist. He renounced the Gospel.

You can say he never truly converted. But he thought he had, and everyone who knew him thought he had. Then he renounced Jesus Christ!

As a practical matter, you cannot know - not when looking at someone else, and not when looking in the mirror - the true heart of anyone.

The description in Hebrews 6 is a beautiful description of a Christian:

“When you find men who have been enlightened, who have experienced salvation and received the Holy Spirit, who have known the wholesome nourishment of the Word of God and touched the spiritual resources of the eternal world...” - JB Phillips

“those once enlightened, having tasted also of the heavenly gift, and partakers having became of the Holy Spirit, and did taste the good saying of God, the powers also of the coming age,” - Young’s LIteral Translation

“been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come” - NASB

Those are concise yet beautiful descriptions OF A CHRISTIAN. “Partakers of the Holy Spirit” - that phrase defines a Christian.

How does scripture describe a non-Christian?

“dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.” - Ephesians 2

How can someone who hates God be a partaker of the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit IS God! Partaker: metochos : “participant, i.e. (as noun) a sharer; by implication, an associate:—fellow, partaker, partner”

” For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;” - Hebrews 3:14

“Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end...”

“For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end...”


Y’all can believe Calvin if you wish. But the scripture is actually quite clear - IF you let it speak for itself.


190 posted on 02/21/2017 6:24:33 AM PST by Mr Rogers
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To: Mr Rogers; metmom

There is clearly a tension in the Bible between the passages you have cited and the ones that metmom has cited describing assurance of salvation. How do you reconcile the apparent disconnect?

Also, in the parable of the seeds and the sower, which soil represents those who are saved? Are there soils that at first appear to fertile, but then wither? What causes the withering? Is it not the nature of the soil, rather than external forces?


193 posted on 02/21/2017 7:14:35 AM PST by kosciusko51
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To: Mr Rogers
I also know of a few people who fit the description of your friend. Consider this...they are obviously wrong by rejecting Christ especially if as you say they once led others to saving faith and professed Christ as Lord and Savior and walked the Christian life. Right now, however, they are being deceived. That doesn't mean they will always think that way and if they have the indwelling Holy Spirit they are being drawn back to the Lord - He abides faithful...He cannot deny Himself. We should continue to pray for them and be the example of what genuine Christian love is all about. But, if in the end they die in unbelief, we know from Scripture that: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. (I John 2:19)

One more thing, the passage from Hebrews says "It is impossible to bring them back to repent again...". That says to me - if we take the interpretation you provided - there is no hope at all for such a person. Do they really only get one chance and then they are condemned for eternity because God won't allow them to come back to the faith? Even a sincere faith? I don't see that so I don't agree with that view.

227 posted on 02/21/2017 6:00:51 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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