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To: ScottfromNJ

You misquote John 3:13.

It does NOT say “gone”.

It reads “ascended”, which refers to “under their own power”.

You will note that Mary was “Assumed”, not of her own power.

Reconcile your Job citation with Moses and Elijah appearing with Christ in front of Peter.
If they had not been in heaven, where do you propose they were following their departure from earth?


50 posted on 02/18/2017 5:40:07 PM PST by G Larry (There is no great virtue in bargaining with the Devil)
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To: G Larry

“You misquote John 3:13.

It does NOT say “gone”.

It reads “ascended”, which refers to “under their own power”.”

Actually, the Greek term that “ascended” was derived from “anabaino” is not limited exclusively to “under their own power”, its primary usage is to arise, to go up, with no real emphasis on the force behind the movement.

“You will note that Mary was “Assumed”, not of her own power.”

Really? What book, chapter and verse?

“Reconcile your Job citation with Moses and Elijah appearing with Christ in front of Peter.

If they had not been in heaven, where do you propose they were following their departure from earth?”

Already stated the passage that Moses and Elijah’s appearance was actually a vision God created for the apostles.


57 posted on 02/18/2017 7:19:49 PM PST by ScottfromNJ
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To: G Larry; ScottfromNJ
You will note that Mary was “Assumed”, not of her own power.

Which is another fable that is made into doctrine. As even Ratzinger stated,

Before Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven was defined, all theological faculties in the world were consulted for their opinion. Our teachers' answer was emphatically negative... Altaner, the patrologist from Wurzburg¦had proven in a scientifically persuasive manner that the doctrine of Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven was unknown before the 5C; this doctrine, therefore, he argued, could not belong to the "apostolic tradition. And this was his conclusion, which my teachers at Munich shared.

But if you conceive of "tradition" as the living process whereby the Holy Spirit introduces us to the fullness of truth and teaches us how to understand what previously we could still not grasp (cf. Jn 16:12-13), then subsequent "remembering" (cf. Jn 16:4, for instance) [yet "grasp" is not the same as "remembering"] can come to recognize what it has not caught sight of previously and was already handed down [in amorphous, unrecorded, unverifiable "tradition"] in the original Word," J. Ratzinger, Milestones (Ignatius, n.d.), 58-59. More by God's grace. .

66 posted on 02/18/2017 8:13:44 PM PST by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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