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Bishop Schneider: Martin Luther is Not a Witness to the Gospel (on Vatican Document)
Catholic Family News ^ | 2/17/17 | John Vennari

Posted on 02/18/2017 6:28:09 AM PST by marshmallow

CFN Intro: On February 16 Rorate Caeli and Adelante la Fe posted a comprehensive video interview with the well-known conservative Bishop Athanasius Schneider of Kazakistan that runs about 48 minutes. The interview covered a myriad of topics, but CFN is spotlighting Bishop Schneider’s magnificent response regarding a recent Vatican document that names the heresiarch Martin Luther as a witness to the Gospel. We know you will benefit from Bishop Schneider’s forthright commentary (JV).

Question: A controversial document from the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity equates Saint Ignatius of Loyola and Saint Francis of Borgia with Martin Luther, calling him a witness to the Gospel. We as Catholics are aware of the serious damage Luther caused to the Church, what should be our position if our ecclesiastical authorities invite us to consider Luther as a witness to the Gospel?

Bishop Schneider. Well, this document is issued by the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, this Council has no doctrinal authority. We have no need to take seriously this document, which is objectively wrong. It is against the evidence. We cannot put on the same level Luther and Saint Ignatius. This is a contradiction. Luther cannot be a witness to the Gospel, and the Church will not ask us to accept this because it is only a statement from the pontifical Council so it need not be taken seriously.

When we examine in sincerity and honesty Luther and his work, he caused immense damage to the entire Christianity. He divided Christianity. He is not a witness of the Gospel.He denied almost the entire previous tradition from 1500 years. This cannot be a witness to the Gospel who puts himself as the authority to interpret the Word of God. This is against the Faith which Christ gave us and which the apostles transmitted to us in a basic manner – to reject the Holy Tradition as really a fount of revelation and the entire thinking of the Church which the Holy Ghost guided in the dogmatic and doctrinal issues, and this is the case. Luther did not reject [merely] the disciplinary tradition, the pastoral tradition, but he rejected the fundamental doctrinal tradition of the Church. And the doctrinal tradition of the Church is the Gospel. This is Gospel. And when I reject the substance of the entire Apostolic and immutable constant tradition of the Church (in the case of Luther, 1500 years) I am rejecting the Gospel.

For example, in Kazakistan where I am living there was a holy martyr priest who was beatified, Blessed Oleksa Zarytsky whom my parents had known personally, he blessed me when I was a child. This priest was from the Byzantine Rite, but Catholic. And the Communist asked them not to deny Christ, not to deny the sacraments, but only to deny one point of the Gospel: the primacy of Peter, the papacy (which is in the Gospel). Blessed Oleksa told the tribunal, “If I would deny this point on the primacy of Peter, I will deny entire Gospel. I will be the anti-witness of the entire Gospel.” This is in our time, he died in 1963.

So, in the case of Luther, he rejected the heart of the Church, which is the Eucharist. He rejected the sacrificial essence and substance of the Eucharistic celebration, and this is the heart of the Church – the Eucharist. This is just one example. So how could one be a witness to the Gospel when he rejects the heart of the Church, the sacrificial nature of the Mass itself?

Luther called the Mass an invention of the devil, a blasphemy. He called the papacy an invention of satan. How can we name this person as a witness? When we do this, we don’t believe in the sacrificial character of the Mass, or we don’t believe in the primacy of Peter, or we don’t believe in the Catholic manner of the unchangeable doctrinal tradition of the Church, or we are committing a lie and playing only a game of political correctness. This is very dishonest. Or we have an intellectual position of relativism, that truth and untruth are the same. And so in this case when this document from the Pontifical Council states that Luther is more or less the same level as St. Ignatius, they are putting truth and error at the same level. This is the position of philosophical and theological relativism. And this is very dangerous.

So I think we need not take this document seriously, because it has no doctrinal authority. It is in itself contradictory and completely wrong. This document will not last for many years. Because the Church is more powerful, the unchangeable truth is more powerful than this weak and very wrong document. It will pass away with time.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; History; Mainline Protestant
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To: Lazamataz
Let me try and change your mind...


121 posted on 02/20/2017 4:21:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I love Mormons.


122 posted on 02/20/2017 4:25:44 AM PST by Lazamataz (TRUMP LIED TO ME!!!! ....He said I'd get sick of winning.... AND I'M NOT SICK OF WINNING YET!!!!)
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To: Lazamataz

I detect a spiritual epiphany!


123 posted on 02/20/2017 4:51:24 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

**This sounds mighty MORMON!!**

Just working from the other fellow’s guidelines on heaven.

Paul tells of the third heaven in a vision, calling it paradise.
Sounds like a nice place.


124 posted on 02/20/2017 8:56:34 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Elsie; Lazamataz
What a purr-fect series of exchanges.

Perfect as a [that] picture... [wowza!]

125 posted on 02/20/2017 10:21:15 AM PST by BlueDragon (my kinfolk had to fight off wagon burnin' scalp taking Comanches, reckon we could take on a few more)
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To: Elsie

hmmm...

What can be done? We see what is often done, provided in examples of "what is thought to be [equivalent to] 'scripture' " --examples of that being abundant enough throughout the world... which do find repetitions of those same examples posted on the pages of this little 'internet ghetto' of sorts, --of ours that we so dearly cherish, at least I do cherish-- which is [the 'religion forum' pages most particularly, of] FreeRepublic...

In rational answer to treatments of Scripture which purport to say what the Scripture does not say on it's textual face -- that 'face' understood in context and origination towards what it was intended to convey (whether to much imply, if not say more explicitly) being confused/conflated with being the Scripture itself, what can be said, what can be done but to somehow clarify what is being said, how that is being sought to apply -- then -- what is either wrong (or even possibly right) concerning such things?

You have already answered your own question, and do so quite regularly, in your own thought-provoking ways. Salute (herding little goats [and sheep, don't forget the sheep] around ain't always easy, but getting out on minor walkabout(s) can remind of us of the supernatural origins of the air which we naturally breathe).

126 posted on 02/20/2017 10:59:54 AM PST by BlueDragon (my kinfolk had to fight off wagon burnin' scalp taking Comanches, reckon we could take on a few more)
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To: Elsie

The dude on the far left.....is he a rebel, maybe BLM, or just looking at his phone?


127 posted on 02/20/2017 12:05:43 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: marshmallow; All

Martin Luther was an inspired man.

He was lead by God to break away from apostasy. With out Martin Luther we would not have freedom of religion in this country.

I thank God regularly that I’m a Mormon and very thankful for men like Martin Luther.


128 posted on 02/20/2017 3:00:49 PM PST by StormPrepper
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To: Zuriel
Paul tells of the third heaven in a vision, calling it paradise.


That Paul fella says a LOT of stuff; doesn't he!!


1 Corinthians 2:9

“But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.”

129 posted on 02/20/2017 3:27:23 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: BlueDragon
...herding little goats... ...around ain't always easy...

AMEN!

130 posted on 02/20/2017 3:28:44 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
I thank God regularly that I’m a Mormon and very thankful for men like Martin Luther.

Why?

What's Mormonism got that regular Catholics or Protestants do NOT have?

131 posted on 02/20/2017 3:30:33 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie; StormPrepper

.
>> “What’s Mormonism got that regular Catholics or Protestants do NOT have?” <<

Its a form of Islam/Freemasonry

(they ‘know’ stuff!)


132 posted on 02/20/2017 3:35:03 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: piusv
I couldn't care less whether you "dispute" Catholic doctrines. I know "y'all" are wrong, so I don't bother with "y'all". I was merely telling others to stop bothering with "y'all". I have yet to see someone deeply entrenched on either side switch to the opposite side.

I have my suspicions whether or not you "couldn't care less". If that were true, you wouldn't continue to show up on these threads. Additionally, I don't think you need to tell others to "stop bothering" to speak up for their beliefs. For me, I only do so when I sense the Holy Spirit leading me to and that really isn't for you to approve or disapprove, know what I mean? It is up to Him, after all, as God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. Martin Luther was a Catholic priest and the truth of the gospel broke through to change his heart, so that's one of many who DID "switch".

133 posted on 02/20/2017 3:53:32 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: ealgeone

Me, too, and being that I am a former Roman Catholic, I think it is important that the truth is posted and the false claims of Rome disputed. We never know who may be reading these threads and the Holy Spirit is opening their eyes and hearts.


134 posted on 02/20/2017 5:42:52 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

yes, sir!


135 posted on 02/20/2017 5:45:26 PM PST by ealgeone
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To: boatbums
"Continue to show up on these threads"? You mean the ones that pertain to the Catholic Church? Yes, I do. But I rarely get involved in the Prot-Catholic back and forths. And I never get involved on Prot threads. I don't even open them for the most part.

But you are right on one thing. I don't have to tell others to stop bothering. I'll try to remember that the next time I see another Catholic bothering to interact with the usual suspects here. I usually don't say anything. I do regret saying anything here now.

For now, I'll just take my own advice. Have a nice day.

136 posted on 02/21/2017 2:45:16 AM PST by piusv (Pray for a return to the pre-Vatican II (Catholic) Faith)
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To: editor-surveyor; StormPrepper; Normandy; teppe
Its a form of Islam/Freemasonry

I've read something about this...



"I Will Be a Second Mohammed"

In the heat of the Missouri 'Mormon War' of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim,

           "I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was "the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword". So shall it eventually be with us: "Joseph Smith or the Sword!" [1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking and troubling parallels. Consider the following.

  • Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

  • Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

  • Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new spin.   In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters, but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to 'correct' the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the 'Inspired Version'  in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is 'correcting' it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

  • As a part of their new scriptural 'spin', both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible by name.

  • Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. "I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book." [3]

  • Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet's own superior revelation.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered 'infidels', pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

  • Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

  • Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed's followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Ali ibn Abi lib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

  • Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet." [4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.


[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230-231. Fawn Brodie's footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57-59, 97-129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8-9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6-7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408-409.


137 posted on 02/21/2017 4:12:28 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: editor-surveyor; StormPrepper; Normandy; teppe
Its a form of Islam/Freemasonry

I've read something about this...




Masonic Influence in the Endowment Ceremony

Masonry/Temple

138 posted on 02/21/2017 4:16:56 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: piusv
For now, I'll just take my own advice.

Jude 1:3
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God's holy people

139 posted on 02/21/2017 4:19:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: piusv

The Pope went on vacation for a few days to visit the rugged mountains of Idaho. He was driving along near a campground when he heard a frantic commotion just at the edge of the woods. He found a helpless Democrat wearing shorts, sandals, a ‘Vote for Hillary’ hat and a ‘Save the Trees’ shirt.

The man was screaming and struggling frantically, thrashing all about trying to free himself from the grasp of a 9-foot grizzly bear. As the Pope watched in horror, a group of Republican loggers wearing Go Trump shirts came racing up. One quickly fired a .44 magnum slug right into the bear’s chest.

The two other men pulled the semiconscious Democrat from the bear’s grasp. Then using baseball bats, the three loggers finished off the bear. Two of the men dragged the dead grizzly onto the bed of their pickup truck while the other tenderly placed the injured Democrat in the back seat.

As they began to leave, the Pope summoned all of them over to him. “I give you my blessing for your brave actions!” he proudly proclaimed. “I have heard there was bitter hatred between Republican loggers and Democratic environmental activists, but now I’ve seen with my own eyes that this is not true.

As the Pope drove off, one logger asked his buddies, “Who was that guy?
“Dude, that was the Pope,” another replied. “He’s in direct contact with Heaven and has access to all wisdom.

“Well,” the logger said, “he may have access to all wisdom, but he don’t know squat about bear hunting. By the way, is the bait still alive or do we need to go back to California and get another one?


140 posted on 02/21/2017 4:31:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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