Posted on 08/24/2016 5:52:10 PM PDT by marshmallow
“But Executive Committee President and CEO Frank Page refused to put a positive spin on the declines, exclaiming in a news release, “God help us all! In a world that is desperate for the message of Christ, we continue to be less diligent in sharing the Good News.” “
NO!
And as a long time Southern Baptist, this is part of the problem - WE do not convert anyone! We are responsible for reaching out. But: “8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3
I think the Holy Spirit is drawing back his hand as America rejects God. And as a result, any bible-honoring church WILL see declines in membership. I’m an Arminiam theologically, without a Calvinist bone in my body, but no human is responsible for converting others!
“46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles....” - Acts 13
If the Apostle Paul couldn’t get people to convert, then I cannot either. Nor should I try! Jesus Himself didn’t worry about numbers, so why should I?
Yes, actually most of the active S. Baptist churches I know here don’t even refer to Baptist in their names.
Thanks, I didn’t know that about Andy; maybe that’s why he never subs for Charles on the Sunday broadcasts any more.
It goes without saying that I wish every person would be saved and know the One, True God. But at the same time, I would rather have a smaller, stronger church than one that denies Biblical truth in favor of popular culture.
Here’s an article I just found about issues with Andy’s approach to ministry.
http://www.deliveredbygrace.com/andy-stanleys-problem-with-the-bible/
I tried Andy’s podcast. It’s about leadership, but I have to be honest, I could not get into it. Lot of words, but not much content.
Wheat. People in the South are moving to smaller churches that actually talk about the Word as opposed to being big money making PC machines. JMHO.
Evangelical Protestants Are The Biggest Winners When People Change Faiths - http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/evangelical-protestants-are-the-biggest-winners-when-people-change-faiths/
There’s real truth to your comment. It applies to my own family and many others I know. We moved to a small church totally out-of-step with the age—long services, rich verse-by-verse expository preaching, traditional hymnody, multiple serious Bible study options a week, no real youth program, focus on foreign missions—and it’s the best decision we ever made for our children’s spiritual development.
“Mark Chaves, a professor of sociology at Duke University.” Brilliant author.
Baptists are heroic, since they started preaching against slavery in 1830’s and helped Lincoln get elected. Since then Baptists have been riding on the glorious fumes of the past. Nowadays, it is time to face the facts. The doctrine of John Smyth (1570-1612) has one fatal flaw; his doctrine is not His doctrine. After all, Smyth’s doctrine is only 407 years old.
Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction.
2 Corinthians 2:1-3
I just learned that a couple years back. God chooses us.
It actually was a relief to know.
“The doctrine of John Smyth (1570-1612) has one fatal flaw...”
Ummm...that no one in the SBC gives a rat’s rear about John Smyth? For doctrine, we prefer the Bible. And the SBC was NOT on the forefront of preaching against slavery.
With respect. The Bible is the authentic Word of God and thanks to the Baptists we have Biblical archeology in the Holy Land. My sister did her degree in Boston on the Baptists’ sermons in the 1830’s by very brave Baptists. High five. And please notice this simple puzzle. Why take the Bible literally if the following is discounted? “Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty” (John 6: 35). His substance really was in the bread at the Last Supper.
A few years ago, I saw some recording of Andy Stanley, I think it was a show that came on right after his father’s program. Anyways, I watched it, and came away with the thought that Andy was “worldly”.
His son Andy is a heretic who openly supports Sodomy and Sodomite “marriage”. It is tragic and it must break Dr. Stanley’s heart to see his son reject God’s Word on the subject and lead so many astray.
“And please notice this simple puzzle. Why take the Bible literally if the following is discounted?”
Baptists do not take the Bible literally. The Bible says “He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler.” - Psalms 91.4 That doesn’t mean God is literally a chicken!
There is nothing to connect John 6 with The Last Supper, since no one present to listen to Him in John 6 knew of the Last Supper - which would not occur until much later.
And the scripture explicitly teaches that Jesus is NOT the bread and wine literally, to be taken in perpetual sacrifice:
“And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” - Luke 22 We are to take it to remember what Jesus did, not as part of a never-ending, perpetual sacrifice:
“He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.” - Hebrews 7
“24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.” - Hebrews 9
Taken in context, there is no puzzle for me to solve.
Think it is mostly deaths of old Baptists. There are a lot of them.
I just don't get how his son could have strayed like that? Didn't the same thing happen to John Osteen? I've heard people say he was good but his son is not so much?
Both sons are heritics in charge of large, unbiblical "congregations". The SBC refuses to deal with Stanley's son or their other great heriticsin Rick Warren because they are seen as "pastoring", very LARGE, "successful" SBC "churches".
And since the SBC historically cares more about mere numbers than they do genuine spiritual growth and converts. They willingly overlook these so-called SBC "pastors" heretical teachings and "give them a pass".
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