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To: Mark17
Yes Dan, I keep seeing this infernal doctrine of salvation by works here.

The way the RC system basically works is that an RC infant (typically) is made good enough for Heaven via the proper act of sprinkling (effecting "infused charity"), though the requirement for baptism is wholehearted repentant faith, (Acts 2:28; 8:36,37), and the faith behind baptism/obedience is what effect purifying the heat, (Acts 15:9) while neither being innocent or cleansed translates to perfection of character and overcomes the attachment to sin of the flesh. (Rm. 8:7) And which requires the testing that this life affords, but which perfection is one of the reasons given for Rome's purgatory, besides atoning for sins they did not sufficiently atone for on earth.

And since the average Catholic does not possess that baptismal state at death then the majority must go to purgatory until they once again become good enough to enter Heaven (and atone for sins).

Which is basically salvation under the Law, but with more grace given so that one may practically become good enough for Heaven, in contrast to being declared righteous by faith, (Rm. 4:5,6) and made accepted in the Beloved on His account, (Eph. 1:6) with immediate spiritual access now into the holy of holies, (Heb. 10:19) and being forever with the Lord at death or His return, (2 Corinthians 5:8; Phil. 1:23,24; 1Thes. 4:17; Acts 7:59) and with the next transformative event in conformity to Christ after this life being that receiving our "house from Heaven" at the Lord's return.

And at which time is the only postmortem suffering for the believer, that of the judgment seat of Christ, that being the suffering of the lost of rewards based on the manner of workmanship one built the church with, with every believer being rewarded "according to his own labor, " even though they are already with the Lord.

After which will follow the great white throne judgment (which the elect assist in), in which the lost which be sentenced according to their works, even though they are already in Hell. See here on 1Co. 3:8ff by the grace of God.

Thus, faced with the reality that the particular judgment awaits the Lord's return, and thus eliminates the 1Cor. 3 from being purgatory, then the RC, if he is bound to defend his church no matter what the cost to credulity, is driven to actually contend that the Lord's return - which is a distinct event in Scripture, and required for the particular judgment such as Lk. 12:32-48 (invoked to support purgatory) speaks of, can be said to be when one dies. Which is simply another example of Cath abuse of Scripture, forcing it to support Rome as a servant, not its master.

And thus such unreasonable devotees can render themselves unfit for more present attempts to bring them to acknowledge the manifest Truth.

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (2 Timothy 2:25)

843 posted on 08/26/2016 2:58:24 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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To: daniel1212; imardmd1; knarf
Let me see if I can add a tidbit of information to that. I know you and I are both ex Catholics, but even still, I don't know if every Catholic believes exactly the same thing. My understanding, from what the priests and nuns told us, was that infant water baptism makes one semi righteous, then the rest of one's righteousness, is accomplished by good works. So, if my good works out weighed my bad works, I could bluff my way into Heaven.
The problem was, I was committing mortal sins a hundred times a day, so I knew I was an evil dude. Now, I don't believe in different degrees of sin. All sins are mortal sins. Some sins have greater consequences, like murder has greater consequences, than if I tell my wife a little white lie, when she asks if what she is wearing, makes her look fat.
The bottom line was, I just didn't think I could bluff my way into Heaven. Besides that, I was a very rebellious Catholic. If they told me not to commit mortal sins, I just went out and did a mortal sin a minute. If there was a meter, like the hands on a clock, that would move forward everytime I did a mortal sin, someone could have used it as a fan, because it moved so fast. I did a lot of mortal sins. It's all different now.
855 posted on 08/26/2016 3:42:32 AM PDT by Mark17 (The love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forevermore endure.)
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To: daniel1212; Mark17; Salvation
Exactly what I was going to propose, except that I had the notion not to do it just yet. Thanks for saving me the effort. My words in responding to Pope's thesis would have been a bit different, but import of the Scriptures and application effecting the same. I just didn't want to get into the Purgatory error at this moment. Thanks for the explanation. Of course, the Luke text is about a servant, a steward, who was not indeed a servant at all but only professed the title, but was not faithful at all.

1 Cor. 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Q. E. D.

857 posted on 08/26/2016 3:46:17 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: daniel1212
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (2 Timothy 2:25)

Ouuuuccch.
858 posted on 08/26/2016 3:48:26 AM PDT by Resettozero
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