So you don’t even thank ADSUM for correcting your erroneous claim that “[the Catholic Church teaches] Whosoever dies clothed in this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire”?
You just switch to another criticism without even acknowledging when your opponent has defeated you? Talk about “typical”.
And your new attempt at defeating Catholicism (criticizing the Carmelite tradition [note the lowercase “t”] about Mt. Carmel and Elijah and Mary) is also answered at the (Catholic.com) link ADSUM provided. (The article by Michelle Arnold). If you bothered to read it in it’s entirety. Which you obviously didn’t.
“This origin story sparked a great deal of vigorous debate among historians for centuries, until eventually the weight of historical evidence indicated that there was no direct link between the prophet Elijah and the Carmelites (although Elijah is still considered a spiritual father to the order).”. http://www.catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-sign-of-the-scapular (Link at that link for more history on the debate if desired)
“Typical” AGAIN. Intellectual laziness and/or willful obstinacy.
Direct questions to you ealgeone: will you now persist in making the erroneous claim that the “Catholic Church teaches those who wear the brown Scapular are guaranteed to not burn in Hell?” And/or are you going to persist in this new line of attack that since
“Elias, being a prophet, decided to commemorate this event and he founded a community of hermits on Mount Carmel to prepare for the coming of the Savior and His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary”
Isn’t in Scripture, then the Catholic Church must be wrong somehow (even though it’s not a Tradition of the Church, and no scholar today believes that “tradition” (again note the lowercase “t”) to be on par with God’s Word)?
Are you going to persist in these follies? Something tells me you will, just as something tells me in a desperate attempt to get the “precious last word” you will respond something to me now, some kind of deflection or other attempt at confusion, rather than either admitting your defeat or just shutting up.
And all you enemies of the Church wonder why sometimes some Catholics loose their composure with you all from time to time. The willful obstinacy and pride is too much sometimes (for me many times which is why I rarely post to these threads anymore, but this example provided by ADSUM’s work had to be acknowledged and demonstrated. Maybe at least one lurker will realize who’s not being reasonable on these threads).
We've been told too many times by catholics that Scripture and Tradition hold equal value in the rcc.
It's why when Christianity examines these topics and compares them to the Bible they are found wanting and in many cases false.
In the catholic.com website you provided you see the attempt at catholics trying to move away from this "belief" as fast as they can. Yet...many will continue to believe and promote it.
So I ask you....will you disavow the apparitions and the false messages they contain? If not, you're just a culpable as the ones who promote this stuff.
Now to address the rest of your post.
No...there's nothing to thank. The whole concept of wearing a piece of cloth to keep you out of the eternal fire is nonsense.
From the brochure...http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/pdf/brown_scapular.pdf
“ Whosoever dies clothed in this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.” the promise of the apparition.
Such is the extraordinary promise Our Lady makes to those who wear Her Brown Scapular. And this wonderful promise makes the Scapular the most powerful sacramental Heaven’s mercy has given us.
The Scapular also represents Our Lady’s protection and Her care for us. She promised to Saint Simon Stock: “It shall be a sign of salvation, a protection in danger, and a pledge of peace. Whosoever dies wearing this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.”
Note the emphasis on "mary's" protection...not Christ's forgiveness.
Somehow this piece of cloth is more powerful than the blood of Christ????
And your new attempt at defeating Catholicism (criticizing the Carmelite tradition [note the lowercase “t”] about Mt. Carmel and Elijah and Mary) is also answered at the (Catholic.com) link ADSUM provided. (The article by Michelle Arnold). If you bothered to read it in it’s entirety. Which you obviously didn’t.
Your issue is with the people who promote and believe this. I found no correction in the information on this catholic website regarding the scapular. In fact, we have,(from the brochure on the scapular)
Seven hundred years ago She gave Her Scapular to Saint Simon Stock, promising that anyone who wore it at death would Just a few years later, She came again with a more startling promise: “I, the Mother of Grace, shall descend into purgatory on the Saturday after their death and lead to Heaven all those who shall have worn My Scapular and fulfilled My two conditions.” Those aren’t Her exact words, but that’s the substance of them. That’s your ticket: the Scapular of the Blessed Virgin Mary! An old man I knew was very devoted to Mary all his life. High on his list of loving services to Mary was his Scapular practice. For years he asked Her to let him die on a Saturday, Her own special day. One day, he was sitting alone in his third floor flat, bathing tired feet and praying his Rosary. Fifteen minutes later he was dead, Rosary clutched in his hand. The clock was striking eight, Saturday evening! Now about getting that ticket for yourself ... Including the Scapular, there are three conditions: 1) To be enrolled in the Scapular Confraternity once, and to wear the Scapular at all times;
2) To be pure, observing the 6th and 9th Commandments; (I guess the other eight don't count??)
3) To pray each day the Little Office in honor of the Blessed Virgin Mary. (An authorized priest may change that to five decades of the Rosary daily.**)
Further clarification of the requirements are provided in the brochure:
The first condition, to wear the Scapular at all times, is easy. The brown cloth Scapular is what Mary really likes best (see page 21). As for being enrolled in the Scapular, that may have been done at your First Holy Communion. If it wasn’t, almost any priest will do it for you.
The second condition you have to observe already. In case of any sin by impurity, being sorry for it and confessing it (and receiving absolution for it) makes you eligible again for the Blessed Virgin Mary’s Scapular promise.
Thirdly, some authorized priest should assign you a daily duty in honor of Mary. ** (i.e. recitation of the Holy Rosary) http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/pdf/brown_scapular.pdf
I can see why catholic.com wants to clear this up.
To be clear....this is IDOLATRY.
It denies the sufficiency of the one-time sacrifice of the Christ on the Cross when He died for all of our sins and forgives all of our sins as noted in Colossians 1:13-14
Now to address the info at catholic.com.
From the link you provided to catholic.com
I hate to disillusion my reader, but while Carmelites of old cannot be said to have "fibbed," modern Carmelites have been saying "Oops!" for quite some time now about some of the more extravagant claims made by Carmelites down through the centuries about the origins of the Carmelite order and the scapular entrusted to the Carmelites. Being a secular Carmelite myself, I have been one of the modern Carmelites who have said "Oops!" and tried to set the record straight.
So catholicism has to "clean up" what any Christian would know to be a false teaching??
“This origin story sparked a great deal of vigorous debate among historians for centuries, until eventually the weight of historical evidence indicated that there was no direct link between the prophet Elijah and the Carmelites (although Elijah is still considered a spiritual father to the order).”. http://www.catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-sign-of-the-scapular (Link at that link for more history on the debate if desired)
This next part is beyond amazing....in other words, they made it up! btw...I included the whole paragraph you cited only partially for context.
To fill that void, stories began to circulate that the Carmelites could trace their origins back in a direct chain to the prophet Elijah, who had long been associated with Mount Carmel and was believed to have lived as a hermit there (cf. 1 Kings 18); to all the prophets who followed him; and to Christ and his followers, some of whom it was asserted to continue to live as hermits on Mount Carmel down through the ages. This origin story sparked a great deal of vigorous debate among historians for centuries, until eventually the weight of historical evidence indicated that there was no direct link between the prophet Elijah and the Carmelites (although Elijah is still considered a spiritual father to the order).
And, if it wasn't enough to link themselves directly to Elijah, the Carmelites also began asserting a supernatural origin for their scapular—not the little piece worn by many Catholics today, but the large, full-length scapular that constituted a significant part of the Carmelite habit. When the order was establishing itself in Europe, the garb then worn by the hermits was appropriate to a Palestinian mountaintop but strange in Europe and looked upon with suspicion. Effort was made to alter the habit to something more suited to the society in which the Carmelites now had to live. Instituting the change was slow-going—that is, until the claim was made that the Virgin herself had handed a scapular to St. Simon (who, not coincidentally at all, was an early prior general of the Carmelites in Europe) and promised that "whosoever dies clothed in this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire."
Her attempt at spinning this away is sad.
Were the Carmelites of old "fibbing" about the brown scapular?
No, they firmly believed the origin story handed down to them. It's taken centuries of historical research to sort out fact from pious fiction, and for centuries the pious fiction was passed on as God's truth (literally).
Pious fiction??? Is that next to science fiction in the bookstores??
What has been done by the Church to clear up misconceptions about the brown scapular?
Not long after Vatican II, the feast day of St. Simon Stock was removed from the liturgical calendar of the Carmelite order. It was eventually decided that this step was not necessary, and so the feast day was restored—
with the condition that the liturgy for his feast day could not contain mention of the vision of Our Lady of Mount Carmel and the scapular that had been attributed to him.
Just don't mention the vision or the scapular is how the rcc attempts to spin this false teaching away????
Man, the Clinton's would be proud.
Therefore, if anyone says that it is not by the institution of Christ the lord himself (that is to say, by divine law) that blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole Church; or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy: let him be anathema.
--Vatican 1, Ses. 4, Cp. 1
I have not been following this, but to be accurate, which we should be, he should have said that some Catholics teach, without apparent censor, that those who wear the brown Scapular are guaranteed to not burn in Hell. And this issue pertains to the one raised here without resolution, as to the practical basis for for RC assurance of faithful doctrine. For which, at a minimum, the Nihil Obstat + Imprimatur used to be sought.
Catholics read, "Whoever Dies Piously Wearing This Scapular, Shall Not Suffer Eternal Flames" as being part of the Scapular Promises, and see a confirmation of which (with its implicit conditions) being given the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur (Nihil Obstat: Joseph A. M. Quigley Censor Librorum Philadelphiae, die 1 Decembris, 1954. Imprimatur: + J. F. O'Hara, C.S.C. Archiepiscopus Philadelphienais Philadelphiae, 2 Decembris, 1954) , and consider this, at the least to not be contrary to official RC teaching.
The Nihil Obstat + Imprimatur here was provided under the 1917 Code of Canon Law which was in force until the 1983 Code of Canon Law, and which provides the criteria by which censors are to grant the nihil obstat ("nothing obstructs") which leads to the Imprimatur ("Let it be printed").
In every episcopal Curia, censors shall be appointed by office.
Examiners in undertaking their office, leaving off all consideration of persons, shall have before their eyes only the dogmas of the Church and the common Catholic doctrine that is contained in the general decrees of the Councils or constitutions of the Apostolic See or the prescriptions and the thinking of approved doctors. (1917 Code of Canon Law, 1863, 1,2)
The Nihil obstat and Imprimatur are a declaration that a book or pamphlet is considered to be free from doctrinal or moral error.” (The Catholic Encyclopedia Revised and Updated (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1987), p. 288)
“The Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat are official declarations that a work is free from doctrinal or moral error.” — http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/vocations/educators-and-youth-leaders/lesson-plans/upload/what-my-vocation-junior-high-unit-I.pdf
While giving the Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat to a document does not make it as requiring assent, neither can this approval be marginalized without damaging the claim that the church of Rome is the supreme faithful shepherd, for in that interest was the Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat given, which flowed from the Office of the Inquisition.
“To prevent the incursion of opinions that conflict with the church's teaching, the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, created in 1542, has the authority to ban books which it adjudges to be dangerous to the faith and morals of the faithful. The catalog of such books is called the ‘Index of Prohibited Books’ and Roman Catholics are prohibited from reading any book on the Index without permission.
In addition, the members of the church may not read or even sell any book that is dangerous to faith and morals, even if it is not on the Index. Wherever faith and morals are involved, the church claims the right of censorship over books. No Roman Catholic may publish a book dealing with doctrinal or moral matters without having it censored. - (Jaraslov Pelikan, “The Riddle of Roman Catholicism, “(1959).
As for the Dominican habit:
CHAPTER TWO Presenting the Scapular to Saint Simon Mary, “Whosoever dies clothed in this Habit shall not suffer the fires of hell.” "The small habit, known commonly as the “Brown Scapular,” is likewise clearly defined. It differs from the large habit only in size." - Sign of Her Heart, John Mathias Haffert PREFACE BY M o s t R e v . F u l t o n J. S h e e n; Nihil Obstat William A. Margerum , S.T.D. Censor Librorum Imprimatur * George W. Ahr, S.T.D. Bishop of Trenton pp. 12,16. http://johnhaffert.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Sign%20of%20Her%20Heart.pdf