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To: aMorePerfectUnion
"Oral teaching was authoritative because it was emanating from an authority - an apostle."

True, but more. It was authoritative because the Apostles got it from Christ. Therefore it was authoritative for ALL time.

"We do not know what was taught, not being there."

What? What??? ---but you don't understand: we WERE there. The Church --- the believers --- the followers of Christ were there, they heard, they saw, they observed, and they "went and did likewise."

That's how we know what the Apostle taught: by seeing, experiencing, and imitating what the Churches DID: how they believed, how they prayed, how they taught and how they lived their lives.

" At the time, it was authoritative."

It's still authoritative!

Think of this: in the Acts of the Apostles, it says that Jesus taught the disciples many things during the 40 days between His Resurrection from the dead and His Ascension into heaven. But does that book --- the Book of Acts, or any book of the NT --- quote for us one single sentence of what He said in those must-have-been-amazing 40 days? No, actually. Not one sentence. But was it authortative? Yes, and for all time. Forty days of teaching from the One who Died and Rose and now will die no more.

Now: do you think He would give us all this teaching, and then fail to provide a way for it to be transmitted to us? I think not.

How is it that all the early churches thought it HAD been transmitted them? It was in the way they prayed, the structure of how they were organized, the example of how to worship andhow to live, the thick, deep, rich culture and heritage of faith and morals and new life in Christ which took root in the churches in EVERY continent --- Europe and Asia and Africa --- planted by their Apostolic founders?

"What an apostle taught was authoritative but was never equivalent to the 'God-breathed Scriptures.'"

Why do you say this? On what basis? This statement of yours is completely unsupported by Scripture. In fact, Scripture says the opposite:

1 Corinthians 11:2
I praise you for remembering everything I told you and for holding to the traditions that I passed on to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2 Thessalonians 3:6
Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness..

Therefore THESE Scriptures (1 Corinthians 2 Thessalonians) affirming a particular kind of Apostolic, capital-T Tradition, are still applicable to us: "Stand fast and hold the Traditions."

Or do you think that *all* Scripture is useful for teaching, EXCEPT the Scripture that tells us to hold fast to Tradition?

`

68 posted on 08/20/2016 7:32:19 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the Truth." - 1 Timothy 3:15)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“do you think He would give us all this teaching, and then fail to provide a way for it to be transmitted to us? I think not.”

Again, you are creating a narrative and choosing to believe your story. It is an opinion that can not be demonstrated in history. God clearly transmitted everything He desired to in Scripture. He does t answer every question or cover everything. He chose to give us what He wanted us to have.

“It’s still authoritative”

It is unknown and unprovable.

“Why do you say this? On what basis? This statement of yours is completely unsupported by Scripture. In fact, Scripture says the opposite:”

Only Scripture is God-Breathed. It says it is. The burden is on you to prove the unprovable.

“Or do you think that *all* Scripture is useful for teaching, EXCEPT the Scripture that tells us to hold fast to Tradition?”

I understand your narrative. It is unprovable as to what these traditions specifically were. They were obviously known and identifiable to Paul and his readers.

You know you do not have that list. Nor do you have an unbroken chain of proof that these beliefs were tradition nor apostolic teaching.

Even dear El Pope Bennedict acknowledged this.

Your argument keeps cycling back to a narrative you believe, but cannot prove from Scripture nor history before 100 ad. You believe it because you like the story and want to believe it, I have to conclude.

It is at this stage you should move to “well, God could do whatever He wanted”... And keep doing it because you like the story.

I understand human nature. I are one. I study story in culture. I studied too many pages of Church history and the historic development of doctrine. Many of these practices are pagan, added later and proclaimed now as tradition that must have come from the apostles. They are not.

Best always.


72 posted on 08/20/2016 8:14:28 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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