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To: Kolokotronis
The three churches I know the most about, Constantinople, Antioch and Greece, have great admiration for +BXVI and +Francis, the former for his theology (one hierarch called him the first”Father of the Church” since the 14th century) and the latter on account of his practice of economia.

OK, let's start with economia.

Explain to us a little more about economia.

What is it and how does Francis practice it?

We'll get to Francis' attitude to theology and liturgy and tradition later.

33 posted on 07/26/2016 1:45:36 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow; Kolokotronis

Here’s one explanation of the orthodox weird concept of ecomania:

“While the [orthodox] Church stands opposed to divorce, the Church, in its concern for the salvation of its people, does permit divorced individuals to marry a second and even a third time.”

“In the answer that was given the principle of economia (“the Church, in its concern for the salvation of its people”) was being emphasized.”

https://oca.org/questions/sacramentmarriage/divorce-and-remarriage1

In other words, the orthodox church allows adultery, supposedly “in concern for the salvation of its people”, as if that’s possible. So that’s why they like Francis so much. Why they limit the number of adulterous remarriages to three has yet to be explained.


35 posted on 07/26/2016 5:46:06 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: marshmallow
"OK, let's start with economia.

Explain to us a little more about economia."

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you....It's just too beautiful at the pond this time of year to spend time on the internet and in any case, the cottage is pretty much a computer free zone!

One of the first things to understand about Orthodoxy is that we take very seriously, fundamentally if you will, St. John Chrysostomos instruction that "The Church is a hospital, and not a courtroom, for souls. She does not condemn on behalf of sins, but grants remission of sins." Economia is, in part, a result of that concept of The Church.

Pat. Bartholomeus, when he was still a Metropolitan, observed various synodal attempts to define "economia" with any precision will fail "because economia is something that is rather experienced than described and defined…in the Orthodox Church, in which it is a characteristic and ancient privilege." That has certainly been my personal experience and at my age, I've had plenty of it. Economia is part of living as an Orthodox Christian in a fallen world.

The foregoing notwithstanding, here is a short but accurate, as far as it can be, discussion of economia from a Roumanian pov:

"In the Eastern Orthodox and in the teaching of the Church Fathers which undergirds the theology of those Churches, economy or oeconomy (Greek: οικονόμια, economia ) has several meanings.(1) The basic meaning of the word is "handling" or disposition" or "management" of a thing, usually assuming or implying good or prudent handling (as opposed to poor handling) of the matter at hand. As such, the word "economia", and the concept attaching to it, are utilized especially with regard to two types of "handling": (a) divine economia, that is, God's "handling" or "management" of the fallen state of the world and of mankind — the arrangements he made in order to bring about man's salvation after the fall; and (b) what might be termed pastoral economia (or) ecclesiastical economia, that is, the Church's "handling" or "management" of various pastoral and disciplinary questions, problems, and issues that have arisen through the centuries of Church history.

Referring to the ecclesiastical economia:

In one sense, it refers to the discretionary power given to the Church by Christ himself, in order to manage and govern the Church. Christ referred to this when he gave the Apostles the authority to "bind and to loose" (Matthew 16:19, 18:18), and this authority in turn was transmitted to the bishops who came after the Apostles.

In this sense "economia" means, as already noted, "handling", "management", "disposition". In general then, "economia" refers to pastoral handling or discretion or management in a neutral sense.

But it also can take two specific forms: it can be "exact" ("precise", "strict"), which means the usual or general rule is followed precisely; or it can be "lenient" (a loosening or modification of that usual or general rule). The former is called "economia according to strictness (exactness)" and the latter, "economia according to leniency." Economia according to leniency — a modification in the application of the usual rule — has always been done when, in the judgment of the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit (cf. Acts 15:28, "it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us") this would result in the wider salvation of souls through the extension of God's mercy.

In later usage of the terms, "economia" came to be used as a synonym for "economia according to leniency" — that is, a deviation from the exactness of the usual rule — often involving a practice that indeed appears more "lenient." At the same time, the newer terminology speaks simply of "exactness" (or "strictness") instead of "economia according to exactness (strictness)". Thus in this more recent use of terms, the dichotomy "economia according to leniency" vs. "economia according to exactness (strictness, preciseness)," is replaced by "economia" versus "strictness" ("exactness", "preciseness"). The norm, the normal case, is called akriveia (preciseness, exactness, strictness, that is, precise or strict adherence to the standards), while its opposite is economia (leniency,).

It is important to observe that when economia is correctly used and applied (that is, as a modification in the application of the usual rule) such correct application of economia itself is one of the rules. Thus, if one speaks of "bending", "suspending", "dispensing with", "relaxing" the usual rule, one should bear in mind that such descriptions could be misleading, since the correct use of economy is always done in accordance with the rule of Christ, and never contrary to it. This brings up the general principle that in the Church all canons and laws exist in subjection to the rule of Christ — that is to say, His commandments, teachings, and precepts.

Economia is, therefore, in one sense, a bishop's discretionary power to dispense with the ordinary church discipline, or the strict application of the ordinary rules or "canons", of the Church, as they are called.(2) This is because, while the canons are laws (rules) that governn the Church, their provisions do not always precisely cover every situation that might come up; thus their application may at times need to be modified. Such dispensations are made with a view towards putting the spirit before the letter and helping the cause of the salvation of souls.

In this understanding, Orthodox Church economia is the suspension of the absolute and strict applications of canon and church regulations in the governing and the life of the Church, without subsequently compromising the dogmatic limitations. The application of economia only takes place through the official church authorities and is only applicable for a particular case.

The Eastern Orthodox Church intends this concept to have the result that Love, Mercy, and Compassion remain more in control than absolute law."

Stefan-Ioan Stratul

Romanian Orthodox church – March 2009

Like most of Orthodoxy, though, it needs to be lived, not read about. It becomes part of us, as much as our flesh and blood.

As for +Francis, he looks to some of us as being a hierarch who understands the concept of economia and for the sake of the lives of the faithful and the salvation of their souls, wants to fully embrace +John Chrysostomos' definition of The Church. It's all very Orthodox and not, at least from my pov, Latin. I know I have said this before, but it bears repeating. My wife, a convert, was once asked by the Geronda of the monastery outside my maternal village "What is the difference between the Church in The West and The Church in the East." She replied, "Oh, Mother, that's easy. In the West The Church says 'Do this or you'll go to hell". In the East The Church says 'Do this and you will become like God." That difference alone may explain why "economia" is a concept and a praxis which seems to cause such heartburn in the West.

37 posted on 07/28/2016 7:11:14 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen and you, O death, are annihilated!)
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