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To: Robert DeLong
"...because the Bible clearly indicates the length of the previous five creation "days," are longer that ordinary solar days..."

The Bible makes it clear that the five "days" were in fact literal days. The Hebrew word for day (Yom) appears over 400 times in the Old Testament, always in reference to a literal 24-hour day. Unless one wishes to compromise with evolution (and therefore undermine the Gospel), there is no reason not to believe that the days of creation were literal as well. The repetition of the phrase "evening and morning" and the Fourth Commandment (Exodus 20:11) further destroy any possibility for long ages being used for creation.

"The vast ages of the earth does not diminish the power and glory of God, but establishes that God thought that preparing the earth for human habitation was worth the billions of years of preparation."

At the end of each day, God declared that His creation was "very good" i.e perfect, no death, decay, etc. If it was truly created over vast ages, what was occurring during the billions of years of preparation? Evolution (DEATH of the weak, DECAY of their dead bodies, survival of the fittest.) the Biblical text plainly says death, the "Last Enemy," did not enter until Adam sinned. To say that God's "very good" creation required long ages of death before Adam's sin distorts His inspired Word, slanders the person and work of Jesus Christ, and makes God a liar.

Remember, it all started with the words "did God really say?"

33 posted on 07/01/2016 5:36:18 PM PDT by GemStateConservative
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To: GemStateConservative
Before we launch into quibbling arguments about whether Creation was made in 7 literal 24-hour sidereal days or not, or whether the Universe must be only 6000 years old, we as believers we need to remember that we need to tread very carefully in dealing with matters concerning what the Lord wrought before we existed.

Job 38 (where God challenges Job):

Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. Where were you when I laid the earth's foundations? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy? Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, when I said, "This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves"?

Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken.

Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness? Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this.

What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!

Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle? What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth? Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, to water a land where no one lives, an uninhabited desert, to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass? Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew? From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?

Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion's belt? Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs? Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God's dominion over the earth?

God makes it painfully clear: When we start to speculate about the mind of God and what happened during creation (beyond what He has revealed to us) we tread on very shaky ground.

Who knows the unfathomable mind of God? For no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God (1 Cor 2:11). Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? (1 Cor 2:16)

This is why I can't support Ussher's 6000 year calendar that starts at 4004 BC. It is not because it is repeatedly and gleefully used as a cudgel by atheists to beat believers sensesless rhetorically (which is why you see it brought up in the media all the time).

The problem is that a 6000 year timeline is not Biblical. It is based mainly on a misreading of 2 Peter 3:8 (which is quoting Ps 90:4), where Peter states with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Ussher did a basic misreading of Peter. What he did was simple. God created the world in 6 days, a day to God is a 1000 years, so 6 times 1000 years = 6000 years, QED. But don't you see? That's not what Peter wrote! He wrote a thousand years is like a day to Him, not that it literally was.

I am not arguing that it is merely a metaphor. Why? Because I don't have to. 2 Peter 3:8 is not a metaphor, it is something much stronger. It is a simile ('like a'). Peter wrote 'like a' very deliberately, I think, to prevent exactly the kind of bogus literal misinterpretation that Ussher did. To underscore that fact Peter intentionally used two similes and reversed them: that from God's perspective it can go either way. In other words, I think the point Peter is making is actually quite clear: that the passage of time is basically irrelevant from God's perspective.

This is why I make a silent sigh whenever I see a Young Earth creationist argue the 6000 year timeline with an atheist. Invariably it only serves to reinforce the atheist's unbelief. Why? Not because a I think a belief in a 6000 year-old Earth is scientifically wrong, but because the Bible does not demand it. I will admit that the Earth really might be 6000 years old - I don't know because I wasn't there - but we cannot demand it, and in particular we should not base our witnessing on it to unbelievers as a condition of their salvation.

This is why I think hanging your hat on Mark 10:6 as an assertion that Adam and Eve were created immediately after the stars and the heavens is very dicey. What does 'From the beginning' actually mean to a God that exists outside of time and space? Where you there? Do you know the mind of God? Yes, Adam and Eve were created as the first man and woman, and yes they sinned and Adam fell. But beyond what scripture reveals to us you cannot safely go.

Basically, don't try to put God in a box. He wants us to marvel as His creation, for the heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands (Ps 19:1). Just give glory to God and praise Him for the majesty of His creation, of the universe He created with 100 billion galaxies each with 100 billion stars, and revel in coolness of his Plan for us and what He wrought, and be thankful for the underserved gift of salvation that we receive in the blood of Christ Jesus.

37 posted on 07/01/2016 6:23:38 PM PDT by Gideon7
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To: GemStateConservative; Robert DeLong
The Hebrew word for day (Yom) appears over 400 times in the Old Testament, always in reference to a literal 24-hour day.

That's not true. Yom actually appears well over 2200 times and it doesn't always mean a literal 24 hour days. For example:

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

"Yom" is the Hebrew word in verse 5 translated day. That shows that Yom can refer to a period less then 24 hours...or only the daylight portion.

Then there's this:

Gen 2:4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Again "Day" is yom. This is referring to perhaps 7 24 hour days.

But yom can also mean "year":

Exo 13:10 You shall therefore keep this ordinance in its season from year to year.

Again "year" is yom.

From the BDB Hebrew definitions:

yôm
BDB Definition:
1) day, time, year
1a) day (as opposed to night)
1b) day (24 hour period)
1b1) as defined by evening and morning in Genesis 1
1b2) as a division of time
1b2a) a working day, a day’s journey
1c) days, lifetime (plural)
1d) time, period (general)
1e) year
1f) temporal references
1f1) today
1f2) yesterday
1f3) tomorrow
Part of Speech: noun masculine

Just pointing out that you won't win this argument by defining "yom" as a literal 24 hour day according to scripture.

41 posted on 07/01/2016 7:14:20 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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