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Pope Francis Says Church Should Apologise to Gays
BBC ^ | 6/26/16

Posted on 06/26/2016 6:01:17 PM PDT by marshmallow

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To: Biggirl
To see the problem of relativism in Church context, consider and contrast Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani (or Amleto Cardinal Cicognani or Carlo Cardinal Confalonieri of Pius XII's era) and, say Raymond Cardinal Burke today.

Raymond Cardinal Burke is today one of our very best but even he is less militant than Ottaviani, Cicognani and Confalonieri. I is the Magisterium that is the standard and not any personality.

61 posted on 06/27/2016 12:15:16 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em Danno!)
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To: BlackElk

I wait with interest to hear Cardinal Burke’s thoughts on this.


62 posted on 06/27/2016 12:47:12 PM PDT by MDLION (J"Trust in the Lord with all your heart" -Proverbs 3:5)
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To: al_c

I think dismissing homosexuals as degenerates is quite proper. Why normalize it?


63 posted on 07/20/2016 7:44:23 PM PDT by MSF BU (Support the troops: Join Them.)
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To: MSF BU

That’s not even close to what I said.


64 posted on 07/20/2016 7:48:53 PM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: al_c

No, it is what I wrote and I believe.


65 posted on 07/21/2016 7:58:41 PM PDT by MSF BU (Support the troops: Join Them.)
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To: BlackElk

Goldwater never embraced sodomy or abortion until he was out of office.


66 posted on 07/21/2016 8:30:19 PM PDT by MSF BU (Support the troops: Join Them.)
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To: marshmallow
I have never advocated a violent revolution to depose a Pope in a coup.

Until today.

67 posted on 07/21/2016 8:32:02 PM PDT by Lazamataz (With Cruz's 2016 Convention speech, Jeb Bush and Ted Cruz are now solid allies.)
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To: Paulie

Latin Mass Magazine publishes a monthly updated list of all locations where the Tridentine Mass is available in communion with Rome and the local bishops. Also Una Voce America.


68 posted on 07/22/2016 1:11:41 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em Danno!)
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To: MSF BU
I beg to differ. Goldwater's first wife, Peggy, was a member of Arizona Planned Barrenhood's board of directors for several decades before she died in 1985. According to her 1985 obituary in the Los Angeles Times, she was the founder of Planned Parenthood of Central and Northern Arizona.

During the 1964 campaign, Barry Goldwater insisted that a group called Mothers for a Moral America cease and desist in advertising against sexual license, homosexuality and "alternative" lifestyles and suggesting that electing Goldwater was the remedy.

It was the position of Connecticut State Senator (R-Westport) John M. Lupton, Goldwater's Connecticut state chairman that abortion must be legalized before it could be made mandatory for welfare recipients to save taxpayers the expense of paying for Aid to Families with Dependent Children.

In 1964, the public was not quite ready to hear such evil. Goldwater preferred silence to honesty on such issues at that time. There was a libertarian wing of Republicanism in those days which believed that these issues were not issues and that government had no role to play. Herod Blackmun was an example of this mentality. So was Barry Goldwater.

In 1980, as Ronaldus Maximus was about to destroy the myth that hard core conservatives were unelectable nationally (a myth growing out of the Goldwater debacle of 1964) and four years after Goldwater had actually cut commercials urging California primary voters to choose Gerald Ford lest Reagan have his extremist fingers on the button of nuclear weapons, and as the creme de la creme of radical Demonrat US Senators (10 of them including McGovern, Gaylord Nelson, Frank Church and other prominent comrades) up for re-election were poised for the slaughter, Goldwater was trailing in Arizona to a pro-life Democrat businessman Bill Schulz. Goldwater went to Arizona pro-lifers and begged them to switch their support to him, falsely promising to spend the next term as a pro-lifer. They bought the lie and he continued to be a rampaging pro-abort after he was re-elected by a slim margin. He spent that term expressing contempt for pro-lifers knowing that he would never run again. He bragged about taking his daughter for an abortion and that anyone who did not like it could kiss his ass. So much for Mr. Integrity.

He also spent that last term undermining Reagan. He used to visit Margaret Sanger herself in an Arizona nursing home up until her death. Goldwater made me a Republican before I understood what he was really about. Now, he is a source of shame.

69 posted on 07/22/2016 2:05:14 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em Danno!)
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To: BlackElk

Thank you for that.


70 posted on 07/22/2016 2:43:54 AM PDT by Paulie (America without Christ is like a Chemistry book without the periodic table.)
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To: MSF BU

Thanks for clearing that up. Thought it was addressed to me.


71 posted on 07/22/2016 8:27:24 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: BlackElk

Here’s another take: http://www.claremont.org/crb/article/the-goldwater-myth/ ...argue with him.


72 posted on 07/22/2016 11:55:55 AM PDT by MSF BU (Support the troops: Join Them.)
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To: MSF BU
I have never heard of Andrew Busch and, having read his polemic whitewashing what Goldwater ALWAYS was I am not surprised that I have never heard of him.

It seemed that from the moment that Reagan gave his nationally televised address "A Time for Choosing" on election eve 1964, endorsing Goldwater over LBJ, bringing in to a post office box mentioned ONLY in Reagan's speech, 1/3 of Goldwater's campaign funds and a substantial percentage of his still meager support.

When that speech was viewed by conservatives all oer the US, it was clear that with Reagan, a star was born by the giving of that legendary speech. Goldwater was unworthy of Reagan's effort.

When Reagan briefly sought the nomination for POTUS at the 1968 convention, Goldwater had every 1964 Goldwater delegate serving s a 1968 delegate for Nixon paraded before him and Strom Thurmond and Harry Dent to tell them that if Nixon was good enough for Goldwater, he was good enough for them. I was on staff for Reagan's operation at that convention chauffering VIPs to put the arm on delegates for Reagan in a last minute blitzkrieg. The rules then required the nominee to get 2/3 of convention delegates. Sleazy Gerald Ford chaired the convention and cut off vote switches when Paul Laxalt approached to kill Nixon's effort by switching the entire Nevada delegation when Nixon had only a few more votes than necessary WITH the Nevada votes. Ford brought the gavel down and cut off Laxalt's microphone.

Rockefeller had about 2/9 of the delegates, many even in his own New York delegation privately pledged to Reagan on a second ballot. The Nixon delegates were chosen when Nixon, another unprincipled GOP-E sleazebag, looked like the best they could get. They were bludgeoned into line by the unprincipled Mr. Goldwater to help Nixon get the crown (until he was driven from office).

At least Busch has the integrity to note the involvement of the Goldwaters (up to their eyeballs) in Planned Barrenhood and rthe lame attempt to separate Barry from Planned Barrenhood's abortion enthusiasm. Note also that Gerald Ford and his braindead wife Betty were BOTH cheerleaders for baby-killing by the tens of millions as was Goldwater and his very good friend Margaret Sanger (probably the single most evil excuse for a human being alive in the USA in the 20th Century.

But, hey, you may imagine I am overheated on the subject of Sanger. If so, read her biography by noted feminist author Phyllis Chesler: Margaret Sanger: Woman of the Century. I will rest on her case against Sanger and she originally set out in praise of Sanger but her research revealed the truth.

Do not make the mistake of imagining that the reticence of Goldwater to discuss his enthusiasm for baby-killing while still seeking office had anything to do with morality or with a belated change in views. He was a libertoonian monster on baby-killing AND sexual perversion in others for many, many years.

Ask yourself why BMG's rugged good-looking son, California Congressman BMG, Jr., having lost a Senate race as a young man was never heard from again after losing. Goldwater also has a grandson who is a flaming lavender queen and he defended him publicly as entitled to live as he pleased.

Pious platitudes about nature and "nature's god" may have sufficed when the "Enlightenment" raged but we expect more specifics nowadays.

Bill Buckley employed my wife and was good man but he had a weakness for posthumously trying to generously clean up the reputations of the deceased. When Bill's brother-in-law Brent Bozell wrote in Goldwater's name of God and civilization, Bozell, a living saint at the time, was writing in his own voice.

In 1976, a writer closer to Goldwater's views, the serial adulteress Ayn Rand warned her cult following in her Ayn Rand Letter that they MUST vote for Gerald Ford in the primaries because Reagan was an enemy of WOMEN'S RIGHT to murder their unborn children.

73 posted on 07/22/2016 2:07:56 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Society: Rack 'em Danno!)
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To: BlackElk

I think we’re largely on the same page. My only point is that publicly Goldwater was not a social liberal during most of his career. I found your post extremely interesting. As an aside, I was one of the few votes for Laxalt in the NH primary in 1988 and a donor to his brief campaign as well. I’ve often felt that the nation would have been far better off electing a Reagan/Laxalt ticket in 1980. Finally, I didn’t know about BMG Jr. except he endorsed (I think) Rand Paul. The son was a sodomite?


74 posted on 07/24/2016 8:20:50 AM PDT by MSF BU (Support the troops: Join Them.)
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