Posted on 06/16/2016 9:22:17 PM PDT by ebb tide
Pope Francis, spiritual leader of a billion people, has just informed them that ‘the great majority’ of sacramental marriages are invalid because couples don’t go into them with the right intentions. He was speaking at a press conference in Rome. Here’s the context, from the Catholic News Agency (my emphases):
‘I heard a bishop say some months ago that he met a boy that had finished his university studies, and said “I want to become a priest, but only for 10 years”. It’s the culture of the provisional. And this happens everywhere, also in priestly life, in religious life,’ he said.
‘It’s provisional, and because of this the great majority of our sacramental marriages are null. Because they say “yes, for the rest of my life!” but they don’t know what they are saying. Because they have a different culture. They say it, they have good will, but they don’t know.’
Uh? You can read the full report here but you won’t be much the wiser. The Pope, thinking aloud in the manner of some maverick parish priest after a couple of glasses of wine at dinner, has just told millions of his flock that they are not really married.
Did he mean to say that? What does he really think? What authority do his words carry?
And why should Catholics even have to ask these questions? Francis’s off-the-cuff ramblings on matters of extreme pastoral sensitivity are wreaking havoc in the Catholic Church, as I’ve written here.
Ross Douthat of the New York Times has just tweeted this response:
Screen Shot 2016-06-16 at 23.54.41
I suspect that even the Pope’s most liberal admirers will have difficulty extricating him from this mess.
Exodus 17:14 "Then the Lord instructed Moses, 'Write this down as a permanent record...'"
Exodus 24:4 "Then Moses carefully wrote down all the Lord's instructions."
Exodus 34:27 "And the Lord said to Moses, 'Write down all these instructions, for they represents the terms of my covenant with you and with Israel.'"
Leviticus 1:1 "The Lord called to Moses from the Tabernacle and said to him, 'Give the following instructions to the Israelites...'"
Leviticus 6:8 "Then the Lord said to Moses, 'Give Aaron and his sons the following instructions...'"
Deuteronomy 31:9 "So Moses wrote down this law and gave it to the priests."
Deuteronomy 31:24-26 "When Moses had finished writing down this entire body of law in a book..."
Joshua 1:7-8 "...Obey all the laws Moses gave you."
Joshua 8:31-34 "He followed the instructions that Moses the Lord's servant had written in the Book of the Law..."
Joshua 22:5 "...obey all the commands and the laws that Moses gave to you."
2 Chronicles 34:14 "...Hilkiah the high priest...found the book of the Law of the Lord as it had been given through Moses."
Matthew 19:7-8 "...why did Moses say a man could merely write an official letter of divorce and send her away?", they asked. Jesus replied, 'Moses permitted divorce...'"
Matthew 22:24 "Moses said, 'If a man dies without children...'"
Mark 7:10 "For instance, Moses gave you this law from God..."
Mark 12:24 "...haven't you ever read about this in the writings of Moses, in the story of the burning bush..."
Luke 24:44 "...I told you that everything written about me by Moses and the prophets and in the Psalms must all come true."
John 1:17 "For the law was given through Moses..."
John 5:46 "But if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me because he wrote about me. And since you don't believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?"
John 7:23 "...do it, so as not to break the law of Moses..."
It says nothing of a "Supreme Being."
Have you not read that He who created [them] from the beginning Matt 19:4
rather than the Creator who..... Romans 1:25
God has created to be gratefully....1 Timothy 4:3
Nor about "atheism".
Nor about "divinity,"
power and divine nature, have been clearly seen,...Romans 1:20
"monotheism,"
"rapture,"
and remain will be caught up together...1 Thess 4:17
nor "evangelical", "evangelisic", or "evangelist."
of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, Acts 21:8
the work of an evangelist, fulfill 2 Timothy 4:5
Nothing about "Sola Scriptura" or "Five Solas" (why five? Why not six, or four? O Sola Mio!)
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 2 Tim 3:16
no "faith alone" --oops, unless you count the place where it says "not by faith alone," (James 2:24)---
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9
27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Romans 3:27-28
Now....can the catholic produce the following from the Bible. The reference must be clear.
perpetual virginity of mary
the immaculate conception
pope
papacy
indulgences
transubstantiation
mother of God
Most Blessed Virgin
God bearer
mediatrix
co-redemtrix
most pure
most holy (in reference to Mary)
Mistress (in ref to Mary)
ever virgin
cause of our salvation
immaculate heart of Mary
Mother of mercy
mother of sorrows
madonna della strada
mother of the church
mystical rose
our lady of bethlehem
our lady of chartres
our lady of grace
queen of patriarchs
queen of prophets
queen of virgins
refuge of sinners
tower of david
untier of knots
our lady of light
our lady of loreto
our lady of providence
our lady of ranson
our lady of solitude
our lady,star of the sea
our lady of vallarpadam
queen of confessors
queen of matyrs queen of heaven
queen of the apostles
archbishop
annulment
apostolic nuncio
acrhdiocese
mass
cardinal
college of cardinals
roman catholic church
curia
vicar of Christ
Holy See
monsignor
nun
Fatima
sacraments
I'm just teasing you, hon.
But why do you use these wacky, unnecessary non-Biblical terms???
:)
It's impossible that God would have begotten His son on Mary by fornication (on an ordinary single girl with no lasting covenant.)
It's impossible that God would have begotten His Son on Mary by adultery (on an ordinary married woman already conjugally vowed to somebody else.)
That's impossible because God would not have achieved the Incarnation of His Divine Son via sexual violation or covenant-breaking.
Having eliminated the impossible, only the improbable is left in which to sift out the truth: some kind of special union with a woman consecrated to Himself.
This does not at all eliminate the Mystery of the Incarnation, but it defends the Incarnation in its Holiness and Honor.
The Reformation principle of sola Scriptura has to do with the sufficiency of Scripture as our supreme authority in all spiritual matters. Sola Scriptura simply means that all truth necessary for our salvation and spiritual life is taught either explicitly or implicitly in Scripture. It is not a claim that all truth of every kind is found in Scripture. The most ardent defender of sola Scriptura will concede, for example, that Scripture has little or nothing to say about DNA structures, microbiology, the rules of Chinese grammar, or rocket science. This or that “scientific truth,” for example, may or may not be actually true, whether or not it can be supported by Scripture—but Scripture is a “more sure Word,” standing above all other truth in its authority and certainty. It is “more sure,” according to the apostle Peter, than the data we gather firsthand through our senses (2 Peter 1:19). Therefore, Scripture is the highest and supreme authority on any matter on which it speaks.
But there are many important questions on which Scripture is silent. Sola Scriptura makes no claim to the contrary. Nor does sola Scriptura claim that everything Jesus or the apostles ever taught is preserved in Scripture. It only means that everything necessary, everything binding on our consciences, and everything God requires of us is given to us in Scripture (2 Peter 1:3).
Furthermore, we are forbidden to add to or take away from Scripture (cf. Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Rev. 22:18-19). To add to it is to lay on people a burden that God Himself does not intend for them to bear (cf. Matt. 23:4).
Scripture is therefore the perfect and only standard of spiritual truth, revealing infallibly all that we must believe in order to be saved and all that we must do in order to glorify God. That—no more, no less—is what sola Scriptura means.
“The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.” —Westminster Confession of Faith
This excerpt is taken from John MacArthur’s contribution in Sola Scriptura: The Protestant Position on the Bible.
BUT... what we were discussing, is whether we NEED to use only the exact words. Whether the ipsissima verba have to be there. Like the phrase, "Books of Moses."
I say, no. (Because I don't believe in "Sola Scriptura". I believe in "Scriptura," but not in the "Sola" part. I'm the Catholic, remember?)
I say you can reason things out from the Scriptures. Like Incarnation. Like Trinity., Like Books of Moses. Like Mother of God.
Wow, interesting!
I am so glad you asked!!
Because they refer to truths which Christ teaches the the Church which are hinted or foreshadowed by, or predicated upon, or logically derived from, Biblical truths--- but which are not explicitly defined in the Bible itself.
Supreme Being.
Trinity.
Incarnation.
Mother of God.
The difference being the Christian can rely upon, and find in the Bible, far more of these theological terms/ideas than can the Catholic their terms/ideas.
Nevertheless, she would either be married or single.
We are ALL chosen in Christ. Read Ephesians 1 where the word for grace there is the same one used by the angel to Mary.
Mary and Grace
The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul tells us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.
http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Greek word “grace”
charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace
Original Word: χαριτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on
Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).
Word Origin: from charis
Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace
NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).
you have to contemplate the "divine adultery" of God impregnating somebody else's wife. Which is, I would say, a blasphemous thought.It seems you are the only one that had that blasphemous thought MrsDono. Strange.
Islam teaches that God (Allah) may...
Only Catholics are required to worship the same god that Islam worships.
Christians only recognize and worship One God, the God of the Bible.
Catholics may do as they wish, but don't get Catholic beliefs mixed up with Biblical Christian beliefs.
Metmom, it seems to be difficult for some to understand the Spiritual realm in which God operates.
I hated to even c/p the totally off the wall blaspheme up my reply a bit.
Oh my! Opposing the gospel according to Mrs Don-o. You will be punished now! The imperial highness has declared and you did not bow down! Oh noes!
Now, if catholic apologists were only alive enough to apply the same reasoning to the blasphemous Mass where your priesthood supposedly feeds to you the body, blood, soul and divinity of GOD in direct contradiction to the Laws GOD established. But that is too much to expect from an catholic apologist.
This is brought to perfcet realization in the Eucharist, where imbibing Christ's blood is commanded ("Take and drink") precisely because "life" is in the Blood and precisely because this "Life" IS sacred.
The message: blood is sacred. Do not use it profanely. Use it sacredly.
It's like sex. Sex is forbidden to the unmarried. Is that because it's evil? No, that's because it's sacred. You do not use sex with 99.9999% of the persons you could have sex with. You use it only with the one-and-only who is your spouse.
The ANALOGOUS message: sex is sacred. Do not use it profanely. Use it ONLY with your spouse, sacredly.
Blood is not evil; it's sacred. Do not "Take and drink" it profanely. "Take and drink" ONLY Christ's blood, sacredly.
Love ya, MHG.
You are unable to comprehend that Jesus was speaking of spiritual empowerment, connecting it to the manna as bread from Heaven, by the body sacrificed on the Cross and the blood poured out for our redemption. God did not forbid eating the manna. HE DID forbid eating human flesha nd drinking blood for the living thing.
Your religion has chosen to read the passage as ONLY literal and never metaphor, such that you pervert the symbols GOD used to show the way to spiritually connect with the Salvation in Christ using the simplest of items available everywhere for THE REMEMBRANCE of His death for us. Instead, your religion, catholiciism, teaches its adherents to commit a blasphemy in pagan religious fashion, insulting the very REMEBRANCE ritual Jesus used to connect to His New Covenant.
JESUS explained the metaphor in John 6, telling His disciples that the flesh profits nothing. It is The Spirit that gives LIFE. Yet you catholics persist in this pagan blasphemy and are so deluded as to not be able to see your own blasphemous misreading! I find that thoroughly disgusting, but perhaps a strong delusion God is using to weed out something important to be revealed.
Not surprisingly, you defend the blasphemy blindly, at once making Jesus a law breaker by feeding what is forbidden to His disciples ont he night before He went to the Cross to establish the seal of His new Covenant with humankind by allowing HIS blood to be poured out on the Cross.
That is your cue to post some catholic mumbo jumbo about 'mystical body and blood', not literal body and blood with platlets, etc. And you close your foolishness with the following, showing your catholic god to be duplicitous: "Blood is not evil; it's sacred. Do not "Take and drink" it profanely. " Imbibing of blood is forbidden because "life" is in the blood, and Life is sacred to God." ... "Take and drink" ONLY Christ's blood, sacredly."
You have not a clue why your blasphemy is so deep, yet your religion claims a mystical change to the bread and wine, such that you consume what Jesus allowed to be poured out at the Cross and which He took tot he Holy of Holies for sprinkling upon the Mercy Seat. You are delusional. No catholic priest is worthy to handle The Blood of Jesus. Hocus pocus
"I have continually given the greatest pains and diligence to inquiring, from the greatest possible number of men outstanding in holiness and in doctrine, how I can secure a type of fixed and, as it were, general, guiding principle for distinguishing the true Catholic Faith from the degraded falsehoods of heresy.
"And the answer that I receive is always to this effect: That if I wish, or indeed if anyone wishes, to detect the deceits of heretics that arise and to avoid their snares and to keep healthy and sound in a robust faith, we ought, with the Lord's help, to fortify our faith in a twofold manner, first, that is, by the authority of God's Law, then, by the tradition of the Catholic Church.
"Here, it may be, someone will ask: ‘Since the canon of Scripture is complete, and is in itself abundantly sufficient, what need is there to join to it the interpretation of the Church?’ The answer is that because of the profundity itself of Scripture, all men do not place the same interpretation upon it. The statements of the same writer are explained by different men in different ways, so much so that it seems almost possible to extract from it as many opinions as there are men. Novatian expounds in one way, Sabellius in another, Donatus in another, Arius, Eunomius and Macedonius in another, Photinus, Apollinaris and Priscillian in another, Jovinian, Pelagius and Caelestius in another, and latterly Nestorius in another. Therefore, because of the intricacies of error, which is so multiform, there is great need for the laying down of a rule for the exposition of Prophets and Apostles in accordance with the standard of the interpretation of the Catholic Church.
"Now in the Catholic Church itself we take the greatest care to hold that which has been believed everywhere, always and by all. That is truly and properly 'Catholic,' as is shown by the very force and meaning of the word, which comprehends everything almost universally. We shall hold to this rule if we follow universality, antiquity, and consent. We shall follow universality if we acknowledge that one Faith to be true which the whole Church throughout the world confesses; antiquity if we in no wise depart from those interpretations which it is clear that our ancestors and fathers proclaimed; consent, if in antiquity itself, we keep following the definitions and opinions of all, or certainly nearly all, Bishops and Doctors alike.
"What then will the Catholic Christian do, if a small part of the Church has cut itself off from the communion of the universal Faith? The answer is sure. He will prefer the healthiness of the whole body to the morbid and corrupt limb.
"But what if some novel contagions try to infect the whole Church, and not merely a tiny part of it? Then he will take care to cleave to antiquity, which cannot now be led astray by any deceit of novelty.
"What if in antiquity itself two or three men, or it may be a city, or even a whole province be detected in error? Then he will take the greatest care to prefer the decrees of the ancient General Councils, if there are such, to the irresponsible ignorance of a few men.
"But what if some error arises regarding which nothing of this sort is to be found? Then he must do his best to compare the opinions of the Fathers and inquire their meaning, provided always that, though they belonged to diverse times and places, they yet continued in the faith and communion of the one Catholic Church; and let them be teachers approved and outstanding. And whatever he shall find to have been held, approved and taught, not by one or two only but by all equally and with one consent, openly, frequently, and persistently, let him take this as to be held by him without the slightest hesitation."
(The Vincentian Canon, in Commonitorium, chap IV, 434, ed. Moxon, Cambridge Patristic Texts)
You might benefit from reading very carefully Hebrews 7, 9, 10, and 11. Keep in the back of your mind that the Letter to The Hebrews was aimed at explaining the new covenant which has replaced the Jewish priesthood/temple/animal sacrifice system. Jesus made The Perfect Sacrifice ONCE. He then entered the Holy of Holies in HEAVEN to apply His perfect blood on the Mercy Seat and THEN SAT DOWN IN THE PRESENCE od The Father. Your catholic priesthood CANNOT command Him to come to your pagan altars for continuous victimhood. THAT perfect blood is efficacious all the way back to Adam and forward to now. There were no catholic priests in Abel’s Day or even in Jesus’s time. HE IS The Greatest High Priest and is ever living, needing no alternate christs. Yet your religion claims your priests are an alternate Christ! Jesus warned not to run to and fro if someone says here is the Christ or there is the Christ.
Respectfully, you may want to consider a deeper and broader Christian perspective. A sweeping majority of Christians (which is to say, Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and many traditional Anglicans and their allies) have for the better part of two millennia of Christian history reasoned that God had a long-standing covenant with the woman who would be the mother of His Son, the Eternal Word Made Flesh. He would not just randomly pick up some married woman and commit adultery against Joseph. It is unthinkably base. And God did not do base thing, because there had been a prior covenant between God and the mother of His Son.
Actually it was a covenant prepared from the beginning, from Genesis, of which I give the bare outline here at #278. We (the vast majority of Christendom) see Mary prefigured in Genesis 3:15. It is not only the beginning of "a" covenant; it is the beginning of "the" covenant. It is a marriage covenant, par excellance.
"Only Catholics are required to worship the same god that Islam worships.,, Christians only recognize and worship One God, the God of the Bible."
This is misdirected. The point of my remarks about Islam is that Islam is WRONG about Mary, about Jesus, and about he character of the One True God.
As the Catholic Catechism states, in its discussions of non-Christian religions:
I'm not ordinarily one to gamble, but I'll bet you hadn't read that critical assessment which concludes the Catholic Catechism's comments on the non-Christian religions.
This is why you can say things like:
"Don't get Catholic beliefs mixed up with Biblical Christian beliefs.
You have not yet considered, I think, the entire depth of Catholic Biblical beliefs.
Who has? Dear brother, we're all learners here.
Thank you.
There is no record of a marriage without the conjugal part. That's implicate in the marriage contract that sex is part of it.
Otherwise there's simply no point of being married.
And the point remains that someone else already brought up. That is that if Mary entered into that kind of sexless marriage with Joseph, that would be grounds for annulment in the Catholic church. That Catholics pray to a woman who did not enter into a valid marriage herself.
Physical eating does NOT impart spiritual life. The HOLY SPIRIT gives life. That life is given through faith.
Eating of blood is expressly forbidden by God throughout Scripture and is one of the few OT commands put on the church by the church leaders at the Council at Jerusalem in the book of Acts.
The Catholic teaching that you must consume the actual body and blood of Jesus violates the whole body of Scripture.
Don't eat the blood, the life is in the blood
Genesis 9:4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life , that is, its blood.
Leviticus 3:17 It shall be a statute forever throughout your generations, in all your dwelling places, that you eat neither fat nor blood.”
Leviticus 7:26-27 Moreover, you shall eat no blood whatever, whether of fowl or of animal, in any of your dwelling places. Whoever eats any blood, that person shall be cut off from his people.”
Leviticus 17:10-14 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
“Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth. For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 19:26 “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.
Deuteronomy 12:16 Only you shall not eat the blood ; you shall pour it out on the earth like water.
Deuteronomy 12:23 Only be sure that you do not eat the blood, for the blood is the life , and you shall not eat the life with the flesh.
Deuteronomy 15:23 Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground like water.
Acts 15:12-29 And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,
“‘After this I will return, and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it, that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things known from of old.’
Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”
Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brothers, with the following letter:
“The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the brothers who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that some persons have gone out from us and troubled you with words, unsettling your minds, although we gave them no instructions, it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord, to choose men and send them to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”
Matthew 26:29 I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14:25 Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Luke 22:18 For I tell you that from now on I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
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