Is the Pope Catholic? - The Greatest Schism in Catholic Church History!

Spiritual Food Blogspot ^ | May 10, 2016 | Rev. Joseph Dwight

[Mrs. Don-o]

As far as I know, every one of St. Paul's epistles was written because he saw problems developing in the local churches where he had preached, or which he had planted. Problems with conduct and problems with deviations from doctrine.

Nobody every denied that the Catholic Church has faced these problems from Day One. The Church has never held that all her people and all her local churches are perfect. If that were the case, we wouldn't start every Mass by saying we confess our sins, and proclaim before every Communion, "O Lord, I am no worthy."

So you're refuting a definition of "perfection" that the Church has never held.

[Elsie]

Making a distinction between Sacred Tradition and mere human tradition, St. Paul says this:

Gotta love that Paul fella!

He just can't but HELP commenting on things that are WRITTEN down; can he!?

---

 

 

NIV Romans 1:17
For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."

NIV Romans 2:24
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

NIV Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."

NIV Romans 3:10-12
10. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;
11. there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
12. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

NIV Romans 4:17
As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed--the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

NIV Romans 4:23-24
23. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone,
24. but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

NIV Romans 8:36
As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

NIV Romans 9:13
Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."

NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

NIV Romans 10:15
And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

NIV Romans 11:7-10
7. What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened,
8. as it is written: "God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes so that they could not see and ears so that they could not hear, to this very day."
9. And David says: "May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10. May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever."

NIV Romans 11:26-27
26. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

NIV Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.

NIV Romans 14:11
It is written: "`As surely as I live,' says the Lord, `every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'"

NIV Romans 15:3-4
3. For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4. For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

NIV Romans 15:7-12
7. Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
8. For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs
9. so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name."
10. Again, it says, "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people."
11. And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles, and sing praises to him, all you peoples."
12. And again, Isaiah says, "The Root of Jesse will spring up, one who will arise to rule over the nations; the Gentiles will hope in him."

NIV Romans 15:21
Rather, as it is written: "Those who were not told about him will see, and those who have not heard will understand."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:19
For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

NIV 1 Corinthians 1:31
Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him" --

NIV 1 Corinthians 3:19-20
19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
20. and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."

NIV 1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

NIV 1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:7
Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:11
These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.

NIV 1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:45
So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

NIV 1 Corinthians 15:54
When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

NIV 2 Corinthians 1:13-14
13. For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that,
14. as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus.

NIV 2 Corinthians 4:13-14
13. it is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,
14. because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

NIV 2 Corinthians 8:15
as it is written: "He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little did not have too little."

NIV Galatians 3:10
All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."

NIV Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

NIV Galatians 4:22
For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.

NIV Galatians 4:27
For it is written: "Be glad, O barren woman, who bears no children; break forth and cry aloud, you who have no labor pains; because more are the children of the desolate woman than of her who has a husband."

NIV Hebrews 10:7
Then I said, `Here I am-- it is written about me in the scroll-- I have come to do your will, O God.'"

 

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Making a distinction between Sacred Tradition and mere human tradition, St. Paul says this:

Uh...

WHAT distinctions?

Looks like the ORAL and the WRITTEN are goinbg to be the SAME.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
"Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

[Mrs. Don-o]

This quote:

2 Peter 1:3

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

... does not support your point, because it does not say He has given us everything in writing

In fact, if you ignore what St. Paul said and reject Sacred Tradition --- the spoken words and example of the Apostles and the earliest communities they founded --- you're not getting "everything" He has given us.

1 Corinthians 11:2 "I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you." And again...

2 Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught,either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours." And again...

2 Thessalonians 3:6 "We instruct you, brothers, in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, to shun any brother who conducts himself in a disorderly way and not according to the tradition they received from us."

This Oral Tradition does not exclude or replace the Written Tradition (Scripture.) In fact, they strengthen each other at every point, since they have the same source.

Therefore, stand firm, hold fast, and conduct yourself according to this tradition, whether oral or written.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Looks like the ORAL and the WRITTEN are going to be the SAME.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours."

Yes. We're on he same page here. They complement each other. It's good to have the whole thing: neither the Oral or Written Tradition should be excluded. Otherwise, St. Paul wouldn't be telling us to "hold fast" to both.

[BipolarBob]

I guess I should say "I see" except I do not. I do not see with the Marian-tinted glasses that Catholics use for the Bible. How can one say the figure is literal Mary but all else is figurative? One does not mix-and-match types like one does at a discount store having a clearance sale. First off this was a future vision and at this point Mary is dead and out of the limelight (but the Church is very much in Gods plans). Least you think I have disregard for Mary, that is not true but at this point her part is over. Romans 2:11 says God shows no partiality in respect to persons. We should do the same. How can we honestly study the Bible and learn its secrets if we have biases like Catholics do concerning Mary?

[Elsie]

2 Peter 1:3

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.

... does not support your point, because it does not say He has given us everything in writing

Then WHY did your One True Church FAIL to teach the seven churches in Asia correctly?

Weren't the 'sacred traditions' not yet in place?

[Elsie]

They complement each other.

NO; they do not.

They EQUAL each other!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Great!!

Equal? I'll go with that, too.

[Mrs. Don-o]

OK, tell me who (name) founded those seven churches.

[Mrs. Don-o]

You'll notice that in my last remarks, I didn't say "literal" but rather "phenomenological." Mary is the mother of the Messiah. Therefore if John saw the mother of the Messiah--- which he did --- he saw Mary.

By the time John saw this Great Sign, this vision, May had already come to the end of her earthly life, and gone on to her eternal reward. Best guess is that her earthly life came to an end sometime in the 40's or 50's AD. That would have been decades before the Book of Revelation, which was probably written during the reign of the emperor Domitian (AD 81-96).

[ebb tide]

I doubt God ordered Noah to build his ark, if He had not already made up His mind.

[metmom]

Show bus where in the WORD that Paul or Peter refer to tradition as *sacred tradition* and where they tell us to adhere to it.

Then give us the list of sacred tradition that has been passed down from the apostles themselves, how you know it came from them, and how you are sure that it has been faithfully passed down without change or corruption.

[metmom]

I doubt God ordered Noah to build his ark, if He had not already made up His mind.

That was not the point. The point you made was about God in post 101 was this....."God didn’t seem that patient in Noah’s time. Has God changed?"

It was about God being patient, not about god doing what He knew needed to be done.

I showed that God was more than patient. He was 120 plus patient, waiting for people to repent. They didn't.

[BipolarBob]

If you wish to believe this was a vision that John had about a dead person whose life had ended so be it. I believe the more likely understanding of this was about the future of His Church and the millions of souls associated with it. Maybe God has a Mary obsession too but I just don’t think that is the most likely possibility here.

[ebb tide]

You only made the point that you are ignorant in biblical history. Thanks for trying.

[metmom]

If 120 years is not patient, what is?

[Mrs. Don-o]

But this is so strange. What makes you think that those in heaven are dead? Jesus Himself corrected the Pharisees, repeatedly, and rather sharply, on this point.

Matthew 22:32
" 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'... He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

Mark 12:26-27
"As for the dead being raised, have you not read in the Book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God told him, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead but of the living. You are greatly misled."

Luke 20:37-39
"[Moses] called 'Lord' the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; and he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." Some of the scribes said in reply, “Teacher, you have answered well."

[BipolarBob]

What makes you think that those in heaven are dead?

Only God and those in Heaven knows where Mary is. There is no doubt some saints have been raised for Gods purposes.We know Abraham, Moses and others have been raised as surely as there are many who have not been.
1Thess. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Aren't the angels' salutation "Hail, Full of Grace" (ore "Most Highly Favored") and Mary's embrace of her Savior ("My spirit rejoices in God my Savior") and her inspired declaration "All generations will call me blessed" and her reception of the Holy Spirit, together with the Apostles, at Pentecost, clear assurances that she's one of God's holy ones, i.e. she's "saved"? Therefore in heaven??

Are there any grounds to doubt?