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To: daniel1212
. . . but instead using presbuteros over 60 times for NT pastors.

More error begetting even more error.

The Greek word for "pastor" is ποιμήν (poimēn) and is used once in the NT. The adjective presbuteros (translated 'elder') is the comparative form of πρεσβύτης presbutēs (old), The protoype Jerusalem assembly was governed by a plurality of older, more spiritually mature men, whose angel/messenger/spokesman was James (Acts 15).

Similarly, Paul constrained Titus to appoint elders (plural) in each city (singular). While the elders may have had a pastoral function, the title "Pastor" was not one used in the first churches, and is absent from the NT as being equated with episkopos as is done today, That whole concept of government of churches by an episcopacy is entirely a Romish military-style to subjugate great masses of humans despite their supposed freedom in Christ.

The error today is to use this system even of independent autonomous local assemblies to make all the church members subordinate to a single leader determining the conduct and finances of the church, and quenching the spiritual maturation so as to prevent any opposition to the "Pastor." That is not the form of the NT church.

238 posted on 04/29/2016 2:57:18 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; ealgeone

did it again on Post #238 — forgot to add you guys


239 posted on 04/29/2016 3:00:27 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: imardmd1
The adjective presbuteros (translated 'elder') is the comparative form of πρεσβύτης presbutēs (old),

We B elders!!

242 posted on 04/29/2016 3:26:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: imardmd1
The Greek word for "pastor" is ποιμήν (poimēn) and is used once in the NT. The adjective presbuteros (translated 'elder') is the comparative form of πρεσβύτης presbutēs (old), The protoype Jerusalem assembly was governed by a plurality of older, more spiritually mature men, whose angel/messenger/spokesman was James (Acts 15). Similarly, Paul constrained Titus to appoint elders (plural) in each city (singular). While the elders may have had a pastoral function, the title "Pastor" was not one used in the first churches, and is absent from the NT as being equated with episkopos as is done today, That whole concept of government of churches by an episcopacy is entirely a Romish military-style to subjugate great masses of humans despite their supposed freedom in Christ.

Actually, all the terms are synonymous, as manifested by their interchangeable use in Scripture. The Greek word for "pastor," poimēn, is used many times in the NT, denoting one who shepherds/pastors flocks, and thus it is most often used for Christ, and is also used for those whom God gave to the church. As such it is a general term for those who are ordained, who are otherwise called presbuteros (senior/elder) or episkopos (superintendent/overseer), these two also being used interchangeably.

But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd [poimēn]. (Matthew 9:36)

And he gave some [G3588: "them" or "who are" cf. 2Co_1:4; Eph. 2:11], apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors [poimēn] and teachers.. (Ephesians 4:11) If pastors were different then presbuteros would have also been named as a pastoral office that God gave the church.

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders [presbuteros] in every city, as I had appointed thee:.. For a bishop [episkopos] must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; (Titus 1:5,7)

And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders [presbuteros] of the church. (Acts 20:17)

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers [episkopos], to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)

Therefore pastors refers to those who shepherd the church, who are called elders (referring to the type of person)/episkopos (referring to the type of function of the episkopal office).

God always ordained government, both religious and civil, and enjoins conditional obedience to them. But not as an elite hierarchical system, much less autocratic or infallible, as Rome imagines herself to be.

255 posted on 04/29/2016 9:58:30 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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