Posted on 02/05/2016 4:09:36 AM PST by metmom
Just like always:
Matthew 17:20-21
Your replies to me: 263 For one thing, I didn’t see it. Another is that I didn’t make any statements that if you don’t believe what my church teaches, you’re going to hell.
However, I’ll wing it. Pagan gods are individual entities, a god of rocks, a god of the sky, a god of water, etc.
The Trinity is an attempt to explain the nature of ONE God as revealed in Scripture. You have a body, a sou, and a spirit. All are part of what makes you you. Which part of those is the real you?
267 The spirit wasn’t created by the Father. Only Jesus’ body was created. His inherent nature is God’s clothed in a human body.
337 Do you believe in only that which you understand? How can a man understand God? We don't even understand each other and we're all human.
Another question.....
Just what is your point in this line of questioning? Are you seriously trying to understand the Trinity and come to a better knowledge of God, or are you just provoking? Because the tone of your questioning does not lend itself to that of someone who is seriously wanting to know as opposed to someone who is just trying to cause trouble.
344
I have replied.
Just because you won’t accept any answer doesn’t mean nobody has tried. Exactly what are you looking for that would qualify as an answer to your question? What is it that would convince you?
You want scientific proof? Philosophical?
You want God to come down and smack you upside the head? Or drop a billboard down in front of you?
Are you looking for reasons to believe in Him or to reject him?
Let me tell you something, a god that you can understand is no God at all.
The early Christians only knew that they needed Jesus to be saved and a complete understanding of Him and His character, and all the finer points of doctrine that some people claim you need to know and believe in order to be saved, were not hammered out then.
Read the Gospels. People came to Jesus with simple requests. Lord, heal me. Lord, save me. And He did.
Whatever you need to know about God, HE will reveal to you, but without the Spirit of God revealing God to your spirit, it will be foolishness to you. An unsaved person is spiritually dead and CANNOT understand the things of God, anymore than a blind person can understand light or a Deaf person can understand sound.
If you’re going to wait to decide about God until you understand to your satisfaction, you will die in your sin.
346
No man can really understand the eternal or immortal.
Again, we can’t even understand each other.
For example, (guessing that maybe you’re a man) do you understand women?
Does a man not pursue a relationship with a woman because he can’t understand women? What man DOES understand women?
What woman understands men?
If a man can’t even understand a woman with whom he’s on an equal plain, how can he expect or even feel like he can demand to understand God?
Man is body, soul, and spirit. God is the Father, the Son (Incarnate, having a body here on this earth) and the Holy Spirit.
Any attempt to explain that will fall short but here’s a try.
Some people use that example of the human. Others have used the example of an egg, or water. All are composed of three parts each of which make up the whole.
Some people state that it’s one being manifesting in three persons, but that leads to charges of modalism. My understanding is that modalism in its most extreme form claims that when God is acting as Jesus, He cannot act as the Father or the Holy Spirit, but I don’t see that that concept requires it. So just as I am a wife to my husband, a mother to my children, and a daughter to my parents, it’s all me simply relating to others in three roles. (FWIW)
BTW, science is incapable if even beginning to explain many of the theories its put forth about the beginnings of the universe and physics and stuff like string theory and dark matter. Do you reject any or all science that you can’t understand, too?
All of your comments tell me what the origin of the Son and the Spirit isn’t, or that it can’t be understood. You alternated that with question about my sincerity.
Let’s compare that with three people that actually did answer the question(s)
Southern Claire 347
Well, I don’t know how to answer you completely. I will try with my very limited understanding of an incomprehensible God, but I warn you that it will not be scholarly ‘cause scholarly is not what I is. ;-)
God is Almighty. The Son is the exact representation of God in body/person and did whatever the Father (God) showed Him. All power (of God) has been given to the Son who led a perfectly sinless life. The Holy Spirit is the spirit issuing forth from God. His active agent in this world granted to those who believe in the Son. The Son’s death on the cross being the means of reconciliation between man and God, as we have no way to pay for our own sins to God who is completely holy. It took the perfect (sinless) blood of Jesus, which was foreshadowed in the Old Testament. God cannot reside with sin; the blood of Jesus covers our sin and puts us in a right relationship with the Father for now and eternity.
That perhaps is too simple an explanation and I’m sure I badly mangled it, but there you go. I did the best with my limited understanding (and having a 5-year old near). I can’t fully comprehend God, as I am His creation and not His equal.
This I do know, however, that when I cried out to Him in my darkest hour He came and saved me and changed me completely.
His word tells me all I can comprehend of Him, and I’m barely able to grasp some of it. So, anything beyond what’s in the word would only be lost on those who have no way to understand another realm (such as myself).
I hope this helps.
Best regards,
Springfield reformer 351
One issue I see in your setup of the problem is that by definition, the persons of the Trinity are co-eternal. There is no “origin†in the temporal sense.
Structurally, the presence of three persons in one being is not a byproduct of reasoning that said structure is necessary, but is a response to divine revelation. We do not understand the mechanism of gravity, for example, but we have a body of evidence that such a force exists, though in full understanding of it we would describe it differently than we do now.
As for the analogy to blind acceptance of political theories, I think it is a defective analogy. By definition, purveyors of socialism and other political junk science are accountable to the scrutiny of their peers, us. By contrast, God, being infinitely above us and not accountable to us, has no obligation to conform to the limits of our rational capacity.
Nevertheless, the posit sometimes offered is this, that in God we have much more than mere power. God is love. God is therefore, inherent to His nature, about relationships, and that interior relational model in the three persons sets up God as the ultimate archetype of love.
I don’t have time for more right now. Just some thoughts.
Peace,
SR
Verga 359
Let's try the classical Christian answer: Given the proviso that you accept that a universal highest power exists according to the Thomist view God is the un-created, first moving necessary being. He lives outside of time and space. So technically the terms before and after having no bearing on the origin of the Son.
Gods first thought was of Himself and that thought was so powerful and perfect that it resulted in the Son. Not as a created being, but rather as a reflection of the Father with all of His divinity. Since the Father already existed the Son's first thought was of Him This first thought was of the perfect love He had for the Father. The Father also immediately had a perfect love for the Son. This love resulted in the third person was the Holy Spirit.
I hope this answers your question.
All of their posts were pleasant, they answered the question without dancing around, and most important none of them accused me of being insincere. In short none of them were nasty.
You asked why I posted Scripture to you, Maybe you should take those verse to heart, when you are trying to present a reason to be christian. I have met wiccans and pagans that are better christians than some of the people on these threads.
You show you have no inkling what the terms mean.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Rev 19:10 For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy
Elsie, You don’t want to miss the election circus do you? Maybe you do :)
Being a Hoosier means I get to watch the parade; but not see much of the circus.
We vote way after most candidates have been sifted out.
And in my rural area; it’s about 70% Republican; too.
Which term would that be.
None of the other replies were taking the long and winding road. As I said I have a life I don’t spend hours on social media, If I as a question I expect a succinct reply.
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