Arizona Christian university grants benefits to same-sex spouses

How great, therefore, the wickedness of [fallen] human nature is! How many girls there are who prevent conception and kill and expel tender fetuses, although procreation is the work of God! Indeed, some spouses who marry and live togetherâ€¦have various ends in mind, but rarely children.

So in the above Luther was just blowing smoke to fill time because the Christian Death Metal band was late ?

The overwhelmingly Protestant US didn't pass the Comstock Law in 1873 ?

Wow, even the USSC was fooled into believing that law was on the books !!

Several dozen overwhelmingly Protestant States didn't have laws more strict with regard to contraception than the Federal Comstock Law ?

Dang, and to think that many a politician railed against USSC overreach into State matters when the Comstock Law was struck down making State laws null and void, all based on the lie that such laws existed in the first place !!

Sorry, but just because elitist Presbyterian Net Worth Salvation eugenics advocates or any other subset of a denomination, Independent group, or gaggle of geese, may have differed from the prevailing view, that doesn't alter the fact that for over four hundred years Protestantism as a whole taught contraception was a sin.

History proves that was the case from the Protestant Revolution right up through the 1920s with England and the US leading the way in officially reversing what they taught starting with the Lambeth Conference in 1930.

BS piled higher and deeper is still BS.

While I lean toward granting credit for more denominations, I must point out by this formula there would be thousands of Protestant denominations in general, the vast majority of which have disregarded their own teaching about sin and embraced modernism.

From your link, and subject to change no doubt,

The Mennonite Church USA, the General Conference Mennonite Church, and the Conservative Mennonite Conference have adopted statements indicating approval of modern methods of contraception. For example, while also teaching and encouraging love and acceptance of children, the Conservative Mennonite Conference maintains, "The prevention of pregnancy when feasible by birth control with pre-fertilization methods is acceptable."[52] A study published in 1975 found that only 11% of Mennonites believed use of birth control was "always wrong".[53] Old Colony Mennonites, like the Amish, do not officially allow birth control practices.

A study published in 1975 asked about the use of birth control devices or pills by married spouses in Mennonite and Brethren in Christ congregations. Of the respondents, 11 percent thought the use of birth control was always wrong, 25 percent thought it was sometimes wrong, 47 percent considered it never wrong and 17 percent were uncertain (Kauffman/ Harder, Anabaptists four centuries later, 180). Apparently about half of these people were unwilling to give blanket approval to the practice of contraception despite the fact that the Mennonite Church (MC) and the General Conference Mennonite Church (GCM) had adopted statements indicating approval of contraception by methods approved by the medical profession.

These percentages reflect a more accepting attitude regarding the use of birth control than that found in a resolution adopted by a district of the Virginia Conference (MC) in 1940, an official statement of belief about marriage and marital relations. This resolution reflected the belief that artificial devices and the general practice of birth control were injurious to the moral and spiritual welfare of the home, and they could lead to harmful physical results. A later, even stronger, statement in the same document called attempts to avoid parenthood by use of artificial devices sinful and contrary to the will of God.

The Mennonite Conference of Ontario established a Birth Control Committee (composed of three men) in 1944 to study the issue. In 1945 the committee reported modern birth control methods "tend to a reversal of God's holy law given at creation" and "makes possible the indulging of fleshly desires apart from the marriage relationship." No other Canadian Mennonite conferences appeared to make explicit statements birth control. Greater acculturation of Mennonites in the 1960s and 1970s with the broader society may have promoted more liberal attitudes toward birth control. Research among the general population has shown that the higher the level of education of the wife or husband, the more likely is the use of contraception. Farm workers consistently have a lower proportion of birth control users than the general population and wives working outside the home are much more likely to have completely planned fertility. As greater numbers of Mennonites increased their level of education, left the farm, and had families in which the wife worked outside the home, it became likely that greater numbers used using birth control methods.

The Amish who still reject higher education, remain primarily an agricultural society in which women do not work outside the home and have shown no indication of reducing their growth rate by birth control. In 1981, the mean complete Amish family size was 6.8 children, more than twice the mean for the American family. Abstaining from sexual intercourse is their only accepted form of birth control, but some Amish families concede to using the rhythm method. Some reluctantly use other methods upon medical advice. In Amish circles birth control is not commonly discussed, even among Amish women. Old Colony Mennonites also do not practice birth controll.

Again, you missed my point. When someone makes the blanket statement that ALL do some thing, and it is shown that NOT ALL do, the one making the blanket statement is in error, using hyperbole, or lying.

All you have to do is see who posted the thread to see what it will be.

FWIW, we are better off ignoring these people.

Second.

The motion has been seconded all in favor vote "aye", those opposed (chirping noise), the motion carries.

Hey brother, I heard a wonderful message today. Pastor Lutzer preached The Gospel. He touched on a lot of topics we used to discuss in great detail the controversy of election, justification, and propitiation. You would have been saying AMEN! right along with me.

Again, you missed my point. When someone makes the blanket statement that ALL do some thing, and it is shown that NOT ALL do, the one making the blanket statement is in error, using hyperbole, or lying.

I must have missed your point in that all Protestant denominations taught that contraception was a sin until modern times and now perhaps one percent or fewer do so now. Sodomy seems to be inheriting the same treatment as contraception, albeit there must be more Protestant denominations that still teach sodomy, including between a man and a woman, is sin. However, as with contraception, it is culturally accepted and Protestant sites like gotquestions.org hold it is permissible between husband and wife.

**You would have been saying AMEN! right along with me.**

No doubt!

When's the last time you saw the same sort of folks quibble over the difference between "all Catholics" and "Nancy Pelosi" ?

That tells you all you need to know about whether anyone missed the point.

No, I'm not missing that point, as it wasn't the focus of my original point.

But to address your comments: The point is that the reason this issue is coming up is SIN, whether it be from external source, such as the Supreme Court ruling, or from internal sources, such as a group of rogue clergy. To try to conflate the issue with whether or not one uses contraception in marriage is to miss the bigger picture all together.

Grace and Peace.

In other words, it’s really not a Christian school.

The “Christian” delineater in school titles usually means the Disciples of Christ kind, a thoroughly leftist, formerly-Christian denomination that is every bit as bat-Shiite loony as the Episcopalians.

No, I'm not missing that point, as it wasn't the focus of my original point. But to address your comments: The point is that the reason this issue is coming up is SIN, whether it be from external source, such as the Supreme Court ruling, or from internal sources, such as a group of rogue clergy. To try to conflate the issue with whether or not one uses contraception in marriage is to miss the bigger picture all together.

The point is all Christians recognized artificial contraception as sin until modern times. Then, led by the Anglicans, contraception by artificial means was allowed to creep in and is now permissible in about 99% of Protestant denominations.

Similarly, sodomy was recognized as sin until modern times. Now many, if not most, Protestant denominations regard it as permissible between consenting adults if those adults are married.

Next, homosexual sex was regarded as sin by all Christians until modern times. A minority of Protestant denominations, as of yet, consider two men or two women to be married and those acts without sin. Can you see the devolution ?

Being separated from one holy catholic apostolic church has not enabled the Protestant denominations to persevere in the faith once delivered to the saints. What are they walking back ? Nothing, they are careening forward, or holding their own until their children take over their denomination. The spice must flow, and that spice has already made many addicts, and not to righteousness.

Again, you conflate the two issues by saying that one automatically leads to the other. However, the acceptance of this lifestyle is not just an issue for the Protestant churches. There are articles on a regular basis regarding clergy from the "one holy catholic apostolic church" embracing this issue as well. Not to mention the fact that many FRomans actively question the practices of some of the clergy (Archbishop Wuerl, for instance).

What this is a turning away from God's Word to sin. As I said before, the denominations that are accepting of this lifestyle don't believe the words of God as delivered in the scriptures. I'm sorry you don't see it that way.

S.G.D.
K51

Again, you conflate the two issues by saying that one automatically leads to the other. However, the acceptance of this lifestyle is not just an issue for the Protestant ...

Rather, I connect several issues as they actually unfolded. It is difficult to argue against history. The only issue I did not explicitly mention, although I alluded to it, is pornography. The teaching of the one holy catholic apostolic church is that all four are sins, whether committed by clergy or laity. The teaching of Protestant authorities, if there are any, are all over the map; hence I asked which denominations still taught artificial contraception is a sin. Pornography. Contraception, Sodomy, and Homosexual unions are closely linked, and have significantly, if not irreparably, moved the culture and changed the civil and religious domains.

Pornography. Contraception, Sodomy, and Homosexual unions are closely linked

I would agree with 3 out of 4, but again, your are conflating the issue. Three are clearly sins. The forth is not.

Let me give you an example: Suppose a married Christian couple had a difficult pregnancy, which jeopardized the the life of the mother and child. The doctors ran tests, and cannot determine why it happened, and said that there was a strong likelihood it would happen again.

Should the couple completely abstain so as to not cause another pregnancy? If so, how would you explain this to the couple in a manner that is both loving and truthful?

Let me give you an example: Suppose a married Christian couple had a difficult pregnancy, which jeopardized the the life of the mother and child. The doctors ran tests, and cannot determine why it happened, and said that there was a strong likelihood it would happen again.

Should the couple completely abstain so as to not cause another pregnancy? If so, how would you explain this to the couple in a manner that is both loving and truthful?

Natural Family Planning and faith.

Another difficult situation is faced when someone has AIDS; whether they should marry, and if already married, abstain. Another is when a spouse becomes depressed or mentally ill.

I find the testimony of Saint (Dr) Gianna Beretta Molla particularly inspiring when dealing with pregnancy issues.

Thank you for your reply. I guess we will continue to disagree on this issue.

Grace and Peace,
K51