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1 posted on 11/12/2015 11:00:15 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter

Satanism


2 posted on 11/12/2015 11:05:29 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: redleghunter

This was discovered all of a sudden, hey?


5 posted on 11/12/2015 11:19:34 PM PST by lee martell
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To: redleghunter

After the Fall, man’s “normal” was certainly not God’s. I doubt Aquinas meant GOD viewed homosexuality as normal.


6 posted on 11/12/2015 11:27:59 PM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: redleghunter

It IS natural. It’s the natural result of turning away from God.


8 posted on 11/12/2015 11:30:32 PM PST by DouglasKC (I'm pro-choice when it comes to lion killing....)
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To: redleghunter
" homosexuality is 'natural'"

So is bubonic plague.
12 posted on 11/13/2015 12:46:10 AM PST by clearcarbon
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To: redleghunter
Prominent Dominican Publishes Book Claiming Thomas Aquinas Said Homosexuality is 'Natural'
13 posted on 11/13/2015 12:49:14 AM PST by BlessedBeGod (To restore all things in Christ. -- Pope St. Pius X /// Democrats are Cruz'n for a Bruisin' in 2016!)
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To: redleghunter
Guys, It's not good, but it it's not as bad as it could be. I skimmed the article yesterday and I hope to get the ebook so I can argue against it ... or at least understand his argument.

Aquinas was a very large man, but not obese. People would stop and stare as he walked by because he was tall and big.

Apparently, this province has some flakey friars. But a basic principle of Thomistic thought is that things have “ends.” So to use genitals in a way which precludes there natural end ... generation, and for sexual pleasure alone is perverse, unnatural, disordered.

But normally stimulation of the genitals is pleasurable. It's “natural” to seek pleasure. So, I can see an arguments which says homosexual acts are natural in a particular way, while viewed more holistically they are still unnatural, disordered, etc.

It's natural to want a second bowl of ice cream, but unnatural to eat in a way which does not build up the body and maintain one’s health.

The only reason I think he must be saying more is that anyone who spent a week on the high points of the Summa would know tnat. So why would he take the trouble.

But I don't expect reporters to care about this or even to understand it. So, I'm hanging back until I can see the text.

14 posted on 11/13/2015 1:47:45 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Sta, si cum canibus magnis currere non potes, in portico.)
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To: redleghunter

I guess it depends on how one defines “natural”, doesn’t it?

Look. Sin is natural. Everyone after Adam is born with a sin nature.

So, while homosexuality isn’t in my wheelhouse of sins, impatience and laziness do arise from within me.

I hope this makes sense. God doesn’t approve of any of these behaviours.

Our sin is why he sent His Son.


15 posted on 11/13/2015 2:14:42 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: redleghunter

I’ll go with the Apostle Paul who specifically said it was unnatural.


18 posted on 11/13/2015 2:46:37 AM PST by circlecity
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To: redleghunter

Adultery, fornication, and polygamy are natural too. Natural Man is a degenerate sinner. For those who do not have the counsel of the Holy Spirit, all sorts of sins seem “natural”.


20 posted on 11/13/2015 3:23:33 AM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: redleghunter
Link to the complete text thread on Free Republic.


26 posted on 11/13/2015 4:38:46 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: redleghunter

Does he directly quote Aquinas?


38 posted on 11/13/2015 10:58:50 AM PST by Mercat
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To: redleghunter
Uh... NO.

From the article.

Several fallacies are present in the statements that homosexuality is connatural to the individual and that its finality is the virtuous love of another person.

In the first place, Oliva leaves aside the fact that St Thomas speaks of a corruption of the natural principle of the species which leads the human person to be orientated towards a person of the opposite sex, an orientation that allows human life to be transmitted in the sole framework that is fitting to its dignity: marriage, says Collin. Contrary to what Oliva writes, St Thomas does not designate the origin of this corruption as being in the soul but in habit: an acquired disposition that becomes a second nature. This habit, in opposition to mere biological processes, is on the side of the soul because only the potencies of the soul can be disposed by the repetition of identical acts that create a habit. The same could be said of drug abuse or any other addiction.

In the case of counter-natural sexual pleasure that an individual experiences as connatural, St Thomas considers it to be rooted in a habit that is against reason: which is defined as a vice, a disposition to what is evil, explains Thibaud Collin. St Thomas, in the text quoted by Oliva, is describing the non-natural pleasure some people experience as being natural in an act that is opposed to human nature and therefore to the objective good of man – in this case sodomy – without looking for the source of a psychological type that 19th century psychiatry would later end up calling homosexuality.

The second main point of Oliva s reasoning in view of legitimizing homosexual unions is that this inclination should be accomplished in faithful love that pastors should bless and support: A homosexual couple has a fundamental right to form, because homosexuality is a constitutive component of the individualized nature of two individuals who unite in natural and in some cases in supernatural friendship, writes Oliva. Blessing such couples would help them on their way in fidelity.

Thibaud Collin comments: Here, there is confusion between true friendship and sexual and affective attraction. When Oliva argues that homosexuality, being rooted in the soul, should also express itself and be lived out in the body, he is contradicting the whole of St Thomas teaching on natural moral law and the virtues.

Fr. Oliva, in fact, replaces truth with sincerity: moral truth shows a person s reason the good that should be accomplished by his free acts, that is proper to human nature as God created it, explains Collin, indicating that Oliva reasons inversely: For him, natural law ends up by adjusting to an individual whose natural principle is distorted, according to St. Thomas.


54 posted on 11/15/2015 4:16:29 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7H)
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