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To: Safrguns

To make an answer to this thread which addresses all that is wrong with it would take days. Instead I will try to make a few simple points.

Personally, I do believe that when we die we go to a world of spirits, we are not resurrected until Christ comes again. That time of spiritual existence is the condition of the souls that Christ visited during his time between His death on the cross and His resurrection, where he preached to those who were disobedient. If you want to call this spiritual prison purgatory then go ahead.

I do believe that we can learn there else why would Christ bother to preach to us there.

Just because we can continue to learn and grow in righteousness doesn’t mean we can be perfected there, we can’t. There is only one who has been perfect and it is only by His Grace that our imperfection will be overlooked and we will then indeed be perfected by the love and Grace of Christ Jesus.

I do believe that some will be spared the worst of spiritual existence and be immediately placed in the bosom of Abraham so to speak. There they will happily await the reunification of their spirits and their bodies. I believe that this is the state of the soul for the thief on the cross who was promised Paradise. I hope that this is also the state of Christians who try to live as they understand Christ would want them to live. If there are wonderful people from other religions who through no fault of their own didn’t know about Christ and therefore couldn’t follow Him but would have had they known then perhaps they will be there too. I don’t know these things, I’m not sure anyone KNOWS these things but the hints in scripture lead me personally to believe that is the way it will be.

People always talk about works not having anything to do with salvation, a few thoughts. First, perfect is perfect. There can be no difference in degrees of perfection it either is or isn’t. So in one way that says that works don’t determine where you end up in Heaven. However, if there is a “Purgatory” or spirit world and I do believer there is, then perhaps your works will make a difference. Mother Theresa will likely be in the bosom of Abraham and I will be lucky to even see the place she is in and be near to it I will feel fortunate. Some day however I do feel that I will be perfected by the love and Grace of Christ, in that day Mother Theresa and I will be on the same plane. “In My Fathers House there are many mansions”, Christ said; perhaps mine will be on the same street with hers.


85 posted on 11/02/2015 12:26:28 PM PST by JAKraig (my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: JAKraig

Jesus said to the thief on the cross “Today you will be with ME in paradise”.

Was he telling the thief that his destiny was paradise?

Or was He telling him that he was going to be with Him?

We know that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in heaven.... so did Jesus leave the thief in paradise? or did He take him with Him along with all of the other believers who were being held in Abraham’s bosom?
You see... I believe that the place referred to as Abraham’s bosom (a paradise in Hades) is empty... It has been empty since Jesus went there to declare his victory and set the captives free.

We also know to that to be abscent from the body (death) is to be present with the Lord.


2 Co 5:6 :

Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
For we walk by faith, not by sight.
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.


So I ask you this....

Is “paradise” a place? or is it to be present with the Lord?

There is no “purgatory”.
To say that there is would be a contradiction to the words of Jesus when He said “It is finished”.

The process of becoming “perfect” I would also submit is a process which God Himself completes... NOT US.

We simply cannot become perfect from our own works. It cannot happen. We are MADE perfect ONLY by His sacrifice.


106 posted on 11/02/2015 4:02:01 PM PST by Safrguns
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