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To: BlueDragon
Supposedly, at least when it's pointed out that none have the authority to absolve others of their sins, and that be acknowledged that this comes only from the Lord ---that is not always confessed to, but when it is --- the apologetic turns towards putting things as although it is the Lord who does the forgiving (or not does not, depending upon circumstance, it could be assumed) and that be the forgiveness which ultimately matters, a Catholic "priest" is more merely validating, confirming what which has already effectively transpired, providing reassurance to the pentinent that his own efforts have been in good faith, and sufficient to enable the pentinent to obtain grace, and that such has been granted to him.

Just for the record, whoever told you this was wrong. The priest has the power to forgive sins. Power given to him by God (Jesus, so it's ultimately from Him yes) but it's the priest who does the forgiving directly, again using the power God gave him. "Whoever's sin YOU forgive, it will be forgiven...", as the oft quoted verse says.

This power is contingent upon the priests' obedience to the Church, because while it comes from God ultimately, it is transmitted via the Church and Her laying on of hands, thus subject to the rule of the Church. ("Whatever you bind on earth has already been bound in heaven" As the relevant passage actually says in the Greek, just a bit clumsy in English) hence the reason for the news in the OP, etc.

Of course there are different opinions of what these verses mean (hence all the back and forth between Catholics and non.). I'm not interested in that dance today (as I don't recognize the authority of any given man to interpret Scripture.).

Again, the above is just for the record.

34 posted on 09/01/2015 7:38:07 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven

Though for the moment I cannot precisely recall all sources for what I was speaking towards, I have seen descriptions to the effect within Roman Catholic's commentaries, including that of trained priests. It must have been one of those oogly-boogly post Vatican II Novus Ordo dudes that the SSPX'ers have their cassocks all a-skitter about?

Which is why I mentioned it on this thread, for there is a range of expression on the subject, even within Catholicism and the more formal teachings there, similar to how there is often (more often, in regards to other subject matter perhaps) range of teaching on other points of theology which may be referenced and relied upon --- that do not always say the same things, leaving one able to argue differing sides of various points of theology, while never leaving formal "teachings", if but needing to rely on Vatican II and post Vatican II papal letters, and the writings of prominent theologians, and influential priests of lesser perceived ranking.

And so do you, and so does myself, when we are sinned against.

In fact, one can say we are told by God that we must, or else our own sins will not be forgiven.

Then the matter is not entirely dependent upon someone to come along and bind what had already been bound. Wouldn't that be to simply repeat, go over again, what had been already in existence? Pretty much like I had said in previous comment . do you validate parking here?

Scholastic fantasy. At no time & place within Scripture itself this "power" you speak of be contingent upon conformance to the later customs and traditions that arose --- not sourced from the earliest iterations of the Church, but some time later.

At the time and place of John the Baptist baptizing sinners for the remittance of sins, who were those persons confessing their sins to?

For the record, allow me to answer that;

To one another, those people who were themselves sinners --- were confessing their own sins to one another. Imagine your surprise if that were to sink in...

That notion, that we are to confess our sins (but not necessarily to some set-apart over all other Christians, 'priestly class') is also later confirmed within James 5:16;

So what then? What does this tell us?
Are we to contemplate being "healed" but not forgiven? I can just hear someone out there thinking that, though likely not yourself going there, then trying to stay there, rooting around as for like a hidden truffle...

At the time of John the Baptist,
Where was the priesthood then? Virtually nonexistent save but in the Temple, which was some time not so long later, overthrown.

In the meantime when the church began to grow, and more and more were baptized, prayed over, and received the Holy Spirit, that was the priesthood, albeit there are differing gifts of the Spirit given (from on high) among members of the church.

So where was a priesthood that was empowered, incumbent upon obedience to the church?

I'll tell you. It was in each and every believer, according to passages that confirm that from elsewhere, most acutely (and scattered, repeated, thus confirmed) throughout the writings of Paul.

Where sin is, grace abounds. Its more a matter of finding that grace, and the forgiveness which allows the Lord God to extend that from Himself, to us.

If some chose to have themselves assisted in that process by those they think of as being "priests" then so be it.

Yet to build up a religious system that requires that, and then make things out to be (from other Romish assertions) that the forgiveness of God be unattainable except for through submission to this priestly class -- would be to preclude all not kowtowing to and submitting to Romanist-centric theological positions the possibility of forgiveness of God which He otherwise most freely supplies.

It's like some people attempted long ago to build fencing and walls all around the waters of life, proclaiming that if any not pass their own kiosks --- the water be inaccessible.

The Lord our God had different plans.

John 7

37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”"

48 posted on 09/01/2015 9:38:25 AM PDT by BlueDragon (...the first thing you know, old Jeb's a millionaire...)
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To: FourtySeven
This power is contingent upon the priests' obedience to the Church,
58 posted on 09/01/2015 10:30:46 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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