Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
We are not talking about CHRISTIANS. We are talking about JEWS.
I was baptized in the swimming pool at Bien Hoa Air Base, Republic of Vietnam, in 1970.
Perhaps you remember this: Mine eyes haven't seen, nor my ears heard, what the Father has in store.
The word grace used in this passage in Luke is used in one other place in the Bible and that is Ephesians 1 where Paul is us that with this same grace, God has blessed us (believers) in the Beloved. IOW, we all have access to that grace and it has been bestowed on us all.
http://biblehub.com/greek/5487.htm
Luke 1:28 And he came to her and said, “Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!”
Ephesians 1:4-6 In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Greek word “grace”
charitoó: to make graceful, endow with grace
Original Word: χαριτόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: charitoó
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ee-to'-o)
Short Definition: I favor, bestow freely on
Definition: I favor, bestow freely on.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 5487 xaritóō (from 5486 /xárisma, "grace," see there) – properly, highly-favored because receptive to God's grace. 5487 (xaritóō) is used twice in the NT (Lk 1:28 and Eph 1:6), both times of God extending Himself to freely bestow grace (favor).
Word Origin: from charis
Definition: to make graceful, endow with grace
NASB Translation: favored (1), freely bestowed (1).
We're trying by posting Scripture but by virtue of the fact that you persist in holding your position, it's not working.
Are you telling us then that Christians don't have to obey the Law?
Sheesh... the next thing you'll hear will be some bunk that Mary is a conduit of grace for salvation and an intercessor for mankind...
Oh, wait....
Hoss
Yet catholics continue to insist Mary was sinless in contradiction of the Word.
Ritual or offering for sin?
See Leviticus 12:1-8. Pay special attention to verse 6.
Was the OT not covered in seminary?
Why Millions of Muslims are Seeing Apparitions of the Mother Mary...
Jesus is God.
Mary is the mother of God.
There you go again.
How about using the same reasoning, we apply that to God the Father;
God is the Creator, the Great I AM (as the Creator identified Himself to Moses).
Mary is Mother of the Creator (who is God the Father) Mother of the Incarnate Christ, and Mother of the Holy Spirit too!
metmon is correct when she notes that within the Scripture, Mary is not given the title Mother of God, but instead is identified as mother of Jesus, who came to be also referred to in early Christian church tradition as the Incarnation of Christ.
Can you now see why the term Theotokos does not translate straight across as "mother of God", but rather more precisely as God Bearer?
In Greek language, Latin, and I believe Hebrew also, there are words which do translate as "mother", and were thus available for using as precise wording in regards to Mary's own role, if the early church were to have sought that to that terminology.
Yet they did not, in fact it must be recognized that the early church studiously avoided adoption of the EXACT term "Mother of God".
Those words were not chosen at what many today refer to as the first church Council, but instead a new term was coined, Theotkos, which translate to us as God Bearer, instead of coming up with Greek language term which used μητρὸς if the intent was to unreservedly identify Mary as quote-unqoute, Mother of God.
You did ask why so-called "Protestants" do not accept the identifying terminology which you and others have been obstinately demanding must be accepted.
Your having said that the Scripture was "crystal clear" on the subject was inaccurate, an as used was misleading. (I can only assume that was done on purpose).
If it were to have been such a simple matter, there would have been no real need for a few early Christians to have come up with the term Theotokos, doing so while also so utterly (figuratively) bashing Nestorius as they did (desiring to do so literally, physically also) causing one of the earliest significant splitting up of the Church.
May I ask;
I see I misspelled the word Theotokos, along with having allowed to slip by, some other minor poor editing.
Your syllogism is invalid. Undistributed middle.
Mary made a sin-offering because it was mandated in the Law. Doing so was not a profession of personal sin. FAILING to do so WOULD have been a sin.
Attempting to make this passage into evidence for Mary’s sinfulness is abuse of Scripture. There is no basis for the assertion that this passage was intended by the author to answer that question.
Nice try....but Leviticus makes it clear this is a sin offering.
Really, Before you "knew man" you were overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, and give birth to the Christ child? Funny I don't recall seeing any mention of that on the news.
So now muslims are approving of Mary?
And next Catholicism, I suppose.
Do you really want to be part of something muslims approve of?
Ask Paul.
He wrote Ephesians under the inspiration from the Holy Spirit.
If the Holy Spirit tells us that we have the same grace, I’m not going to argue.
And of course, the argument about her being graced is not in regard to her simply being chosen to bear Jesus, but it’s a matter of Catholics using that verse to claim that she is sinless.
But I suspect that you already knew that.
Thus I consider your show of naivety to be specious at best.
Catholics and agnostics like to say ‘God can do anything’ in order to leave a gapping hole in reason into which they pour their magic thinking. We see it in abundance on this thread, with the elevation of Mary to demi-goddess by claiming she is the mother of a third of the Trinity of God. Such false reasoning gives the magic thinkers a big hole into which they can pour all manner of heresy with a seared conscience. Perhaps the inability to see the faulty reasoning is why they remain perishing in catholiciism? Perhaps they are so far lost that they cannot pull back from the plunge the demonic has pushed them into?
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