To double down on "No" here is obviously redundant, but it is said to emphasize that your scheme is almost backwards of what is going on in Daniel 7:13. Your inapt choice of the context shows that this use of "clouds" is literal, not figurative-literal, the text clearly differentiates th clouds from the onlooking host, and the Son of Man is not exiting from heaven, He is entering the third Heaven. Matthew Henry (long before J. N. Darby) gives the correct understanding of the cloud(s) of Heaven:
". . . when he returned to the Father the eye of his disciples followed him, till a cloud received him out of their sight, Acts 1:9. He made that cloud his chariot, wherein he rode triumphantly to the upper world. He comes swiftly, irresistibly, and comes in state, for he comes with the clouds of heaven. 3. He is here represented as having a mighty interest in Heaven. When the cloud received him out of the sight of his disciples, it is worth while to enquire (as the sons of the prophets concerning Elijah in a like case) whither it carried him, where it lodged him; and here we are told, abundantly to our satisfaction, that he came to the Ancient of days; for he ascended to his Father and our Father, to his God and our God (John 20:17); from him he came forth, and to him he returns, to be glorified with him, and to sit down at his right hand."
In Daniel's vision, verse 14, the Son of Man was elevated in authority, above that of Satan on the earth, wherefore Jesus was able to return to earh for forty days, proclaim his exousia authority to His disciples at Galilee, and delegate them to go forth and make disciples, commanding that these made disciples be inducted and instructed. Then He finally was received back to heaven in a cloud, from whence He is likewise to return (in the clouds of the first heaven) in the fullness of time.
When He comes to receive His Own unto Himself, that where He is, His Bride also might be:
"And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know" (Joh 14:3-4 AV).
Now, PG, you would have those accompanying Jesus in His Second Coming be the cloud (singular), rather than be with Him in the clouds (plural), but this is not possible. Remember now, when He comes for His Own Friends and Bride, their souls cannot normally be seen with the eyes of the mortal, because they have not yet been rejoined to their revamped bodies in midair. However, Scripture indicates that the mortal eye can see the cloud of mist that diffuses and back-scatters visible light, before the dead are quickened and rise. But after that happens those who are yet alive will also be reconfigured and taken away with their no-longer-physically-dead confreres. I'm pretty sure then that there will be a "cloud" of saints in the clouds of the air, being taken back into Heaven with Him.
The Strong's word for "spirit" is H7307 which of course also means "air".
Well, very simply, in 1 Thess. 4:17 the Holy Spirit precisely chooses to use the Greek word αερα (air) which is always literal and cannot mean "spirit," rather than the word πνεῦμα which could mean either "air/wind" or "spirit," as in Jn. 3:8, according to context. I suspect the Holy Spirit chose this word αερα specifically to defeat the approach in interpretation that your doctrine takes you.
Remember what happened to the three Hebrews in Nebuchadnezzar's fiery furnace, . . .
What you can take with you from this story is that the Son of Man has already withstood this for us, so that we do not have to do it again to earn our way to heaven, as you seem to have it.
The bottom line is that your hypothesis doesn't hold up.
This is the end of the line on this thread for me. But thanks for the challenge.
It looks to me like you confirmed my point, that we will meet in the clouds, not water-vapor clouds, but clouds of heaven. These clouds are the clouds of people in their spirit bodies, in the "air" (spirit), spirit bodies being partially what heaven is made of, and indeed the dead have preceded us, as Paul emphasized.
Now, PG, you would have those accompanying Jesus in His Second Coming be the cloud (singular), rather than be with Him in the clouds (plural), but this is not possible.
Cloud of spirits, or clouds of spirits, doesn't matter.
Remember now, when He comes for His Own Friends and Bride, their souls cannot normally be seen with the eyes of the mortal, because they have not yet been rejoined to their revamped bodies in midair.
This is the seventh trump, there will be no mortals. We will all have melted, our eyes dissolving in their sockets as the bible says. Don't worry, I don't think there will be time to look in a mirror. lol
However, Scripture indicates that the mortal eye can see the cloud of mist that diffuses and back-scatters visible light, before the dead are quickened and rise.
The dead have already risen. As the bible says, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
But after that happens those who are yet alive will also be reconfigured and taken away with their no-longer-physically-dead confreres.
We will all be in the spirit.
I'm pretty sure then that there will be a "cloud" of saints in the clouds of the air, being taken back into Heaven with Him.
No, He is bringing His kingdom to earth. Jesus sets foot on the Mount of Olives taking over the earth and not one stone will be left upon an another. All those still alive will be melted as I said above. We all meet in the clouds of spirits, those who were just alive, and those who have died throughout the millennia. All spirits, good and bad, bow a knee to the Lord. So begins the Millennium. The 7,000 and the 144,000 are established as rulers and teachers. The rest of the spirits are given their inheritances and allotments. Kings and Queens of the ethnos are established throughout the earth. The elect teach discipline for 1000 years. Satan is then released a short season to see who still wants to follow him. The Great White Throne Judgment. Those who failed in the flesh and those who failed upon Satan's short release are burned up. We are changed into out eternal bodies and then the Eternal Kingdom.
Well, very simply, in 1 Thess. 4:17 the Holy Spirit precisely chooses to use the Greek word αερα (air) which is always literal and cannot mean "spirit," rather than the word πνεῦμα which could mean either "air/wind" or "spirit," as in Jn. 3:8, according to context. I suspect the Holy Spirit chose this word αερα specifically to defeat the approach in interpretation that your doctrine takes you.
But to do that you are saying than flesh is going into heaven and the dead will be put back into the flesh to go into heaven for 3 and a half years. If not then you confirm that there will be a meeting in the spirit (air). Unless you're saying that these hundreds of millions of flesh bodies are going to the same place that Elijah, Enoch (and maybe Moses) went. But God needed two witnesses to die in the streets of Jerusalem. I believe it will be Elijah and either Moses or Enoch. He doesn't need hundreds of millions, and the bible says every man must die once.
What you can take with you from this story is that the Son of Man has already withstood this for us, so that we do not have to do it again to earn our way to heaven, as you seem to have it.
God wants to see what we're made of so He knows what to to with each of us in the Millennium.
The bottom line is that your hypothesis doesn't hold up.
As I said earlier, the prophets wanted to live in this age, and I don't think it was to fly away from God's enemy.
This is the end of the line on this thread for me. But thanks for the challenge.
It's always interesting to have a discussion with those like you that study the manuscripts.