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The Church, or Christ?
The American Conservative ^ | June 5, 2015 | Rod Dreher

Posted on 07/24/2015 7:31:26 AM PDT by don-o

A Catholic priest once told me something an older priest said to him at a party for his archdiocese’s seminarians headed off to study at the North American College in Rome: “Those poor boys. They leave here in love with Jesus, and come home in love with the Church.”

(Excerpt) Read more at theamericanconservative.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion
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To: editor-surveyor
The name Yeshua MEANS "God saves," i.e. Savior.

Right?

61 posted on 07/24/2015 3:25:31 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (“Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”-Mark Twa)
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; Salvation; ...

Catholic ping!


62 posted on 07/24/2015 3:28:43 PM PDT by NYer (Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy them. Mt 6:19)
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To: don-o

So may I infer that you never wondered why the Great Commission did not say: “Go into all the world and hand out Bibles”?
————————————————————————————That’s right, so wonder why God had billions of bibles printed?

Could it be because Jesus said many shall come in my name and deceive many?

Maybe if people are reading their bibles it won`t be so easy to deceive them.


63 posted on 07/24/2015 3:37:42 PM PDT by ravenwolf (If the Bible don`t say it, don`t preach it to me.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“If you’re a moral type, he’ll try to get you addicted to high-proof moral indignation (hotter than hard liquor, I can tell you).”

He’s a distorter, right? I find a positive example of the distortion in Psalm 119:

“Hot indignation seizes me because of the wicked, who forsake your law” (vs. 53)

Even if coming from a right spirit, that will never sell in the marketplace. But most believers can relate. This God-loving indignation is often yet another casualty of the “don’t JUUUUUUUDDDDGGGGGGE” obsession. No one is righteous, not even one BUT...WE side with God against ourselves and say, “Let God be true and every man a liar”. It’s more of a standing up for the righteousness of God than “ain’t I goooood?”

Bless you.


64 posted on 07/24/2015 4:18:58 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: don-o

“One thing that struck me about Dreher’s piece is that he accuses no one but himself of anything. This is powerful.”

I’m reading Pascal lately and he wrote a couple of scathing “thoughts” about Montaigne. Then he said, basically, “What I see in Montaigne I saw in myself first”.


65 posted on 07/24/2015 4:26:15 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: Kolokotronis

Thank you, Kolokotronis. That was beautiful.


66 posted on 07/24/2015 4:28:08 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: avenir
Then he said, basically, “What I see in Montaigne I saw in myself first”.

I think that's a psychological truism of broad applicability.

67 posted on 07/24/2015 4:32:52 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("All the time live the truth with love in your heart." ~Fr. Ho Lung)
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To: Tax-chick

The opposite is also a truism: “What I saw first in Montaigne, I saw in myself.”


68 posted on 07/24/2015 5:25:24 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("All the time live the truth with love in your heart." ~Fr. Ho Lung)
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To: avenir
Yes, you're right, there IS such a thing as legitimate moral indignation. Just like there's such a thing as legitimate sexual desire, legitimate piety, etc.

But these things can get distorted. Desire get distorted into self-centered out-of-control lust, piety into smug self-satisfied "churchiness," good moral indignation into kind of titillated "Oh, that's so outrageous. I wanna smite those guys. Tell me more, tell me more!"

Satan is totally un-creative. He can't create a "damn" thing. All he can do is glom onto something good that God made, and pervert it.

69 posted on 07/24/2015 5:29:44 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in."-Mark Twain)
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To: Salvation
It is the Holy Spirit who leads us to Christ....not priests.

The priest is not necessary to come to know Christ.

The Holy Spirit guides us.

It is also the Holy Spirit who seals us when we are saved according to Ephesians 1:13-14. The Greek behind these verses is really, really powerful.

Further, membership in a church is not required for salvation....it is faith in Christ that is required.

70 posted on 07/24/2015 8:11:40 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Yes,that is what it means, but savior is not his name; God Saves in Hebrew is his name.


71 posted on 07/24/2015 8:55:33 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ealgeone

You mention the Holy Spirit.

Christ breathed on them — the apostles — and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven, whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.”


72 posted on 07/24/2015 9:08:39 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Yep. Same Holy Spirit given to all believers.


73 posted on 07/24/2015 9:42:59 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

All believers can hear Confessions? Is that what you are saying?

I don’t think so. This is talking about the priesthood.

Christ gave this grace to the Apostles, the first Bishops, and it has been passed down by the Bishops by the laying on of hands at ordinations.


74 posted on 07/24/2015 9:50:55 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“Satan is totally un-creative. He can’t create a “damn” thing. All he can do is glom onto something good that God made, and pervert it.”

Truth.


75 posted on 07/24/2015 10:21:22 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: Salvation
Confession to a priest is not needed for forgiveness. Faith in Christ is what is needed.

When a person believes in Christ their sins have been forgiven.

When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross". Colossians 2:13-14

Further, the security of the believer in Christ can be found in Ephesians 1:13-14. Believers are sealed by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is given as a pledge of our inheritence. In the Greek the word pledge has the meaning of earesnt money.....a down payment guaranteeing the remainder will be paid.

Paul and Peter both view "inheritance" as what awaits the believer in Heaven.

I can not find any place in the NT where the Word ever says we are unsealed by God or that we can unseal ourselves.

76 posted on 07/25/2015 6:21:49 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ravenwolf
Maybe if people are reading their bibles it won`t be so easy to deceive them.

Yes! We need to be like the Bereans....constantly searching the Word.

Some don't advocate doing that as it would expose false teachings.

77 posted on 07/25/2015 6:58:24 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: mlizzy
"Each one of us is a co-worker of Christ - we must labour hard to carry Him to the hearts where He has not yet been known and loved. But, unless we have Jesus, we cannot give Him; that is why we need the Eucharist. Spend as much time as possible in front of the Blessed Sacrament and He will fill you with His strength and His power. Tell Him, 'Come to our hearts Lord and stay with us.' Then you will become the instruments of His love, peace and joy. -Mother Teresa to St. Alexander Parish, 7-15-96

We recently began a discussion group at parish, and I did a presentation on Grace. One of the things I mentioned was how Mother mentioned that she would fortify herself every day with the Eucharist before she went into the streets to do her ministry.

One of the other participants also mentioned St. Francis.

78 posted on 07/25/2015 2:02:15 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
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To: Iscool
How would you know any thing at all that Jesus said had it not been written down??? How would your priests teach the gospel without books??? Or your Catechism??? Why did God have the OT prophets write down what he said???

The "letters" were written in the 50's, James Peter and Paul were martyred in the mid 60's. Most scholars agree that Mark, the first Gospel was written some time around the year 70. Matthew and Luke were written independently of each other sometime either in the 80's or early 90's.

My guess would be that the Gospel (which literally means "Good News") was spread orally. Which if you think about it is still the way that most people hear it even today.

79 posted on 07/25/2015 2:22:20 PM PDT by verga (I might as well be playng chess with pigeons.)
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