Ok, I think I understand now. For simplicity sake then just start with what Petrosius posted in 175. I regret posting the list I did to you now; it seems to be confusing the issue. I just wanted to be sure to “get it all out there” so to speak.
Just start with love of God really. Then everything else flows from that. It’s only reasonable.
Love God with all your heart and mind and being, and love your neighbor as yourself. On these, rest the entirety of the Law. That is as true today as it was 2000 years ago. It obviously necessitates understanding “What is Love?”
That’s a pretty basic question that often gets overlooked in all these debates. But you have to start there. To understand what God wants from you, and what He wants to give you.
How can we understand what God wants from us, and what He wants to give us? God is Love, we know that, therefore we must start by asking, “What is love?” But is it that difficult to know?
Indeed, what does it mean to “love someone”, in our own, human experience?
Do you say to your wife, “I love you” and that’s enough? No, of course not. You know you love her because you want everything good for her, over your own concerns. You want to know everything there is to know about her too.
Does a loving husband say to his wife, “I love you” and that is it? Does he not also want to know her favorite food for breakfast? Does he also want to know what is her favorite color? What are her opinions on politics, and on the afterlife? Does he also not want to know these things too about her? Of course he tries to KNOW these things, because he loves her.
It is this kind of love we are talking about, that God wants to give to US, and we should want to give to HIM. Thus, will it suffice to say, “I love you God” and leave it at that? Should we not expect to see in ourselves a need to know everything there is to know about Him, and to be sure we do? Of course we should expect that. Otherwise, to say “I love you God” has no meaning.
Does a husband say to his wife “I love you”, yet does nothing for her? Does he not buy her roses sometimes “just because”? Does he not wake up to feed their crying baby, so that she may sleep? Does he not protect her from harm? Does he not provide her a roof over her head? Praise for things she has done for him? Of course he DOES these things, and it is not burdensome for him to do it, because he loves her, not because he expects anything in return.
This is the kind of love that fulfills the law, every jot and tittle. Not that the Law saves, but the love for God is what saves. A love that says “yes” I will seek to KNOW as much as I can about You, and DO things for you God, not because I expect anything in return, but because I, Love, YOU.
So I exhort you brother, to go and discover as much as you can about the one you love, and do as much as you can for Him. It’s the only way “love” has any meaning. It’s the only path to salvation. He already knows you. Just love Him back as best as you can in your broken humanity. In every sense of the word “love” as exemplified above.
He doesn’t care how wrong you get things all the time, He only loves you. In every sense of the word “love” as exemplified above. We can’t be as perfect as Him ever, but that doesn’t matter. All that matters is that we love Him as much as we are able, in our broken humanity.
Remember, He came to US, as a Man, we aren’t expected to come to Him, as if we are a god. He only expects us to love us as much as any human being can.
This means, therefore, that we needn’t look for any complicated, high-minded theological “way” to God. We only need to love Him like we love our wives (or husbands). As described above. Just more than even them. If we do that, the theology flows FORTH from that, because Love CREATES.
It’s not that the theology is a requirement for salvation, in of itself. It’s only a “requirement” in the sense that it’s a RESULT of an intense love for God, a love as described above. So you have to start there, with the origin of salvation, which is love of God above all others. Then it’s all a natural result. Then nothing I’ve listed or any Catholic has listed is a burden at all. It’s just a by-product, really, of loving God, a “requirement” only insomuch as it’s impossible to NOT believe such things, to not DO such things, if one loves God as described above. As a husband loves his wife. This is the Catholic claim.
It’s not that complicated.
Beautiful post! Such a relief from the the post-Descartes bean-counting, weighing, measuring view! And from the narrow, pinched and cramped worldview that flows from it!
It obviously necessitates understanding “What is Love?”
Paul has some good things to say about love in his letter to the Ephesians.
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. So [also] husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. “For this reason a man shall leave [his] father and [his] mother
and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church. In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband. Ephesians 5:25-33
Uh, God did not tell us to fall in love with our neighbors.....In fact he warns against it...Again,
Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
This is the kind of love we are to have for our neighbor...Do good...Keep an eye out for him...Help him when he needs it...Respect...Do no harm...
But the man is still married and the wife is still his wife, even if the relationship is “ dead”.
Works make it richer and fuller, but do not make the marriage bond and lack of works do not break the marriage bond in divorce.
The disobedient child is still part of the family and loved by the parents even in the midst of the diobedience. He is not disowned because of it.
In all cases, the relationship is not what it should be and could be in all its fullness, but it is still the relationship.
So, faith is what saves you, puts you into God’s family. Works make the relationship what it should be in its fullness.
An unmarried man could do all the things for a woman that a husband should, but that does not make them married. A child. could obey an adult as a son or daughter should obey their parents, but it does not adopt them into the family.
In all cases, a legal transaction takes place to establish the relationship , marriage, adoption, being saved, and the works simple flesh it out but have no legal ability to either establish the relationship or break it.