Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
Well put.
There is no inherent paganism in the ‘worship methodology’. The paganism is in the object of worship. Pagans prayed to their gods also, but praying to the true God is not pagan just because it was a method used by the pagans.
When Jesus taught his ‘hard’ teachings, this was exactly his point. Things that were forbidden to do for false Gods were required to do for Him. By eating His flesh and drinking his blood we become part of Him, we receive some of His Graces. His is the only flesh and blood that is not forbidden, because He is the true God.
I understand that you do not believe in the real presence, but to say it is impossible because it is a mirror of pagan practices is false logic. Jesus himself went to temple, prayed, participated in holy days, processions...all things that were previously and currently used by pagans.
The real presence argument comes down to whether one believes that Jesus spoke literally or figuratively when he referred to eating his flesh and blood. We know that at least some of the people took Him literally, because some said this was ‘too hard’ and left Him. That Jesus would let people who believed in Him leave over a misunderstanding seems unlikely to me, but if you believe that is true, then at least that is an argument that is logical.
We also know that some people took Him literally and stayed, since this tradition was carried down and believed widely in the original Church long before and even after the schism. It also seems unlikely to me that Jesus would let people stay with Him who misunderstood Him on such a profound subject, but again, you might disagree.
My interpretation is that Jesus was speaking literally. The paganism argument is not a logical way of disputing this.
Love,
O2
There are none so blind as they that refuse to see.
Another who is completely clueless regarding the blood upon the Mercy Seat. Stumble along, Parsing to support pagan rites is you treasure to horde.
But be warned, pagan worshippers, He is coming back soon IN THE FLESH, to call out His Real Church in the Air. THEN, seven years later, He is coming back to set foot on the wrath cleansed planet. Stick around, if you can live through the wrath, and see the Son of Man Coming in His Glory. He is bringing His True Church back with Him then, so you can compare and contrast, if you survived what will kil 3/4 of the humans left after the Rapture of His Church.
You might find the comments from Catholics on this thread of interest. The blatancy of the blindness is astonishing in its boldness.
And with this it is apparent that someone either missed the entire point of the essay or is purposely ignoring the purpose of the essay. Acts 15, we see the first Church council --NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH COUNCIL, BY THE WAY, THE REAL church COUNCIL. This gathering of the elders of the new Christian covenant wrote a letter to the new Christians. The advice given in the letter was focused upon how to conduct themselves as born from above members in God's Family by the Holy Spirit of their adoption. The letter specifically focused upon previous practices probably most of these previously gentiles were involved with. When your education is matured, you will see why your opening assertion is foolishness.
So you believe Jesus was speaking literally there? Do you have an argument to back that up? I'm sure some could interpret that figuratively, especially since I've never actually seen Jesus show up. Also, didn't pagans believe they could summon their gods by gathering together?
Love,
O2
The pagan rites of Catholicism say the Priest brings The Christ down from Heaven onto the pagan Catholic altar. Got wrath?
Oh, they are even more blasphemous than that. They claim their priest can bring the body, blood, SOUL AND DIVINTY down into the magic wafer they feed to the deluded souls they usher toward the abyss.
Then the RCs have a longtime advertising campaign going which the children of God will have trouble topping!
That is quite an accomplishment claimed during each and every Mass/Eucharist: God obeys the timing and directives of men and returns to every Mass/Eucharist to be eaten and drunk.
Peace be with you, neighbor.
What blessings I, though unworthy, have been privileged to receive by saying “Yes” to Jesus.
In Communion we receive the whole, living Christ as He is: infinite, eternal, far surpassing the bounds of the Universe, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity.
It is carnal to the extreme to call this cannibalism, as well as insulting to Our Lord. Please try to avoid carnal-mindedness.
Read what your Catholic Catechism states regarding the Mass and the Wafer the Priest holds up ‘to Heaven’. You eat that wafer you give your agreement to the cannibalizing of ‘the real, substantial presence of the body, blood, soul and divinity of The Christ.’ Parse the cannibalism any way the spirit guiding you says to, it is still being guilty of the body and blood of Jesus. Got wrath?
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