Why I am not Protestant (Non-Denominational, Baptist, Pentecostal, etc)

I certainly do not hold the catholic church responsible. What is in the hearts of those who rendered this ruling is twisted to the uttermost. And they have committed a treacherous act, IMHO.

...” most Catholics will stay faithful to that “Church”...

Yes most will, as Jesus did tell us the way is wide that leads to destruction. But I do pray so for those who truly and sincerely seek Jesus over catholic churchianity, that they will heed the trumpet warning, before it’s too late, and come out from her.

IF you know your catholic history, then you know that there were for more than two hundreds years following the death of the last Apostle five centers of the eklesia body. The ekklesia is the spiritual body of believers, those who faithe in Christ as Redeemer and Lord. These were in Jerusalem, Alexandria, Rome, Constantinople, and Antioch. Eahcx of these centers was headed by a local Bishop of the congregants, not by a pope. The holy appellation is attached to signify that the believers have confirmed their portion of the spiritual body of Christ, the Bride of Christ. This is not a man-made institution and will never be an institution. Catholicism is an institution. It have been fabricated over centuries through various heresies and adoptions of pagan practices in order to give it 'kool' with the masses.

If you know there were five centers in Jerusalem, Alexandria, Rome, Constantinople, and Antioch, why are you not, at least, Orthodox ?

If one knows the scriptures, one knows that in the First Century the Messiah gave blessed Peter the authority of the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose. There was apostolic succession by the laying on of hands and they appointed bishops in more than just the five cities aforementioned.

The Apostle Peter led those who were eligible for Apostolic office (he set the criteria) to choose a successor apostle.
Blessed Paul and Barnabas ordained elders in the churches among the Gentiles.
Paul ordained Titus and then had Titus ordain other Bishops.
This is scriptural evidence of apostolic succession.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed.

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Matthew, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verse nineteen,
Acts, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses twenty one to twenty six,
Acts, Catholic chapter fourteen, Protestant verse twenty three,
Titus, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verse five,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

Your effort to conflate the devised institution of catholicism with the spiritual body of Christ is rejected, by many of US on these threads. And that is the WE to which I refer. Some catholics are members of the Body of Christ, but the catholic institution is not that body.

Can you provide a historical, visible, universal, alternative for the one holy catholic apostolic church that is physically present in every generation from the First Century to this day ?

BTW, I do not capitalize 'catholic' because capitalizing is a form of respect and I have none for your religion of popery foolery.

Admitting what one does, however inadvertent, is a first step toward confession of sin and reconciliation.

>>But I do pray so for those who truly and sincerely seek Jesus over catholic churchianity, that they will heed the trumpet warning, before it’s too late, and come out from her.<<

And I join you in that prayer.

Are you not familiar with the beginning of the Church and the church? How many offices of the church were there among The Church in the Upper Room, at Pentecost, in the House of Cornelius? What was the reason for the appointing of Stephen? Who presided over the first church Council at Jerusalem? Who issued the first pronouncement of that council meeting ... which member of The Church issued that first proclamation from the church at Jerusalem? When did the Apostles begin appointing deacons and other servant members of The Church to function in service to the church? And finally, when did the Bishoprics for The Church members which arose from this organizational development of the church become combined under ‘The Primate of all Bishops’?

Alex, here’s an example: RnMomof7 apparently can’t tell the difference between the redemption and salvation. How can a person study scripture and not know the difference?

I do believe cross-thread continuations are generally frowned upon under the RF rules.

However, as long as you raised the subject here, it is arguable that Catholics would tend to see a greater difference between redemption and salvation than the Reformed. This would go right down to one's view of the atonement. In Anselm, the atonement makes satisfaction (restitution) to the lost honor of God incurred by human sin. This allows for atonement to be a general provision assuring no particular individual that their sins have been taken under that account. Under such a belief, one could easily see redemption as an undistributed provision and individual salvation as the full distribution of that provision to a particular individual. This sort of arrangement is also essential if one is to retain the mass as an ongoing propitiation.

However, under the Reformed view, we endorse the doctrine of penal substitution, in which the sins of all elect persons were in fact paid for in the work of the cross. In offering Himself for sin, we believe He accomplished the redemptive purpose for particular individuals. Those sins have been paid for, and cannot be brought back to condemn the forgiven sinner. Furthermore, this same sinner is made a new creation in Christ, and will persevere to the fruits of righteousness, so moving the redemptive act into a full reclamation of the sinner, both judicially and experientially. Redemption and salvation under such a view are much closer to being a synonym. (Indeed, this connection is so strong among the Reformed that we use the term "particular redemption" to describe the role of the atonement in individual salvation).

It is obvious the RC position finds fault with penal substitution as an understanding of the atonement, probably most importantly because it negates the need for ongoing propitiation for sin in the mass. Many evangelicals dislike it as well. But it is a doctrine well attended by Scriptural support, and any person who is deeply immersed in Scripture would no doubt be at least aware of it.

For further exploration the following articles are quite helpful:

http://www.reformation21.org/articles/surveying-the-wondrous-cross-new-testament-pictures-for-the-atonement.php

http://www.reformation21.org/articles/surveying-the-wondrous-cross-the-atonement-in-church-history.php

Peace,

SR

In Jesus's days along the Galilee redemption in the market place would have meant presenting some proof of purchase and then taking possession of that thing for which an agreed price or an earnest has been paid. If merely an earnest was paid, the remaining price was paid and the 'thing' then passed from the possession of one to another. In that sense, Jesus has paid so great an amount that He can redeem any He claims without any balance due.

The word 'tetelestai' was used in the same markets to signify the transaction is finished, done. It was also written on the prisoner's penalty page to signify the penalty was paid in full when they were released from imprisonment.

Salvation is synonymous with Justification, in my calculus, because The Bible aligns us as at enmity with God, then we are in need of making restitution/getting right with God somehow, if possible. [I will spare readers my long-winded explanation of getting right with God.]

Jesus made that restitution on the Cross. So, believing in Him as Redeemer and Lord, we are justified, marked clean from guilt toward God. It is because of this 'cleansing' that God then enters the spirit of the 'being born from above'.

Only God is Righteous, so if we are to do works of righteousness we must have His life in us to carry it forward. That's why I'm fond of connecting being born from above with being then raised up in the Way that we should go, as members in God's adopted family.

The most astonishing contrast between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant Jesus instituted is the reality that God justifies us then puts His Life in us! we are literally reborn in a moment, the moment we believe He is Messiah and Lord, our Lord. ... And lest we forget, no man can take us out of the two hands of God. That no man includes me, even I cannot take me out of His hands. The Promises of God are ALWAYS fulfilled. He spoke worlds into existence. He can speak my security for everlasting.

I'm frequently reminded how selective so-called Bible believers can be, as they cling to their reformed and recreated theologies. Not as if those theologies are not the best men could form in rebellion, even if not of their own making. Once Saved, Always Saved is imagination at work, and imagine someone answering the Messiah with OSAS in any of these passages; works, works, works ..., else the profession of faith is in vain.

And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word. And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred. And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick? For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath.

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen.

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Mark, Catholic chapter four, Protestant verses thirteen to twenty five ,
Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty two, Protestant verses one to fourteen,
Revelation, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verses fourteen to twenty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

Lest a heretic mock the church of the Laodiceans for being catholic, and thus the Messiah himself, I would remind such a one that if judgment begins with the house of God and we scarcely be saved, the future of a an illegitimate, heretical faith community attendee who despises the one holy catholic apostolic church is ... unprofitable.

In the usual style, the Jews prior to the New Covenant opened to Jews and Gentiles, are conflated with all periods after the Resurrection. I’m not impressed with such foolishness. By merely applying the tool of dispensational perspective such erros could be avoided. Of course it would diminish the nicolaitan hold the RCC claims on people.

In offering Himself for sin, we believe He accomplished the redemptive purpose for particular individuals.

That the atonement of Christ was substitutionary, with Him taking responsibility for what we did wrong, and paying the price Divine justice requires for our sins to be forgiven, on His account. But why must it be limited only to those who appropriate it by redemptive faith?

Surely it does not impugn the character or ability of God to provide grace to all, and allow the lost to reject it. The wedding feast was prepared for all, but not all responded to the call to come, (Mt. 22:1-14) and grace can be received in vain, (1Co. 15:2; 2Co. 6:1; Heb. 6:4-8) though as with God's word, it will accomplish His purposes. In which grace is given, and when rejected it justifies God as gracious and condemns man as wicked, and God judges man based upon the light and grace given.

Yet it is hardly tenable to believe that every NT convert understood theological nature of the atonement, but they did believe that Christ died for our sins and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, (1 Corinthians 15:3-4) and that repentance and remission of sins in his name (Luke 24:47) is offered to all who believe with effectual faith. (Rm. 10:9,10; Heb. 6:9,10)

It is obvious the RC position finds fault with penal substitution as an understanding of the atonement, probably most importantly because it negates the need for ongoing propitiation for sin in the mass.

More specifically, which is due to the unScriptural literalistic rendering,of the Lord's Supper into "the same sacrifice with that of the cross...a sacrifice of propitiation, by which God is appeased and rendered propitious,.” (The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Published by Command of Pope Pius the Fifth (New York: Christian Press, 1905), p. 175) with Jesus continually sacrificing Himself thru the hands of men uniquely ordained as "priests" - unseen in the NT church - who have God obeying them to become flesh and blood - which no NT clergy seen doing - and is eaten in order to obtain spiritual life - which is nowhere the means of obtaining spiritual life.