Posted on 06/22/2015 6:31:38 PM PDT by ebb tide
Those are throwaway lines. I see the reaction on the part of the world, and Bergoglio might as well have not even added them. They are fig leaves, covering the pagan nakedness of this document, and not well at all.
Up until this encyclical, I have been careful in what I thought and said about Bergoglio. I tried to pick out what was worthy in what he said, and tried to interpret as charitably as I could what was not espcially worthy.
But this document is not Catholic. Bad at it though I may be, I am.
I am left wondering about the legitimacy of this papacy.
I don't want to see: 1) liberally-inclined Catholics following Bergoglio off the cliff into gaia worship and 2) otherwise faithful Catholics driven out of the Church because they are scandalized by a (materially?) heretical pope. No priest, no matter how important, will ever drive me from the Church. I know where Jesus is. But I see Catholics losing their faith, and it breaks my heart.
sitetest
Material heresy means that the person is ignorant of the Truth. Can a pope have ignorance as an excuse?
You do realize that in 180+ pages he mentions abortion once? Like in one sentence? And then continues saying things that make you wonder whether he really meant it?
“I don’t want to see: 1) liberally-inclined Catholics following Bergoglio off the cliff into gaia worship and 2) otherwise faithful Catholics driven out of the Church because they are scandalized by a (materially?) heretical pope. No priest, no matter how important, will ever drive me from the Church. I know where Jesus is. But I see Catholics losing their faith, and it breaks my heart.”
Agree whole heartedly, that is exactly how I feel. That is why we need to pray, not a few words of lip service, but on our knees. We can only trust God to work this out for His glory! That’s the only truth we can believe in today’s world.
Being trapped in a religious system one had no choice to be in is not *denying his birthright*.
Jesus came to set us free from bondage.
Our birthright is in Christ who gave those who receive Him, to those who believe on His name, the RIGHT to be called the children of God.
Our birthright is to belong to the family of God, free in Christ, not to be trapped in a works based religious system that kills with the letter of the law.
Yeah, the consistency within Catholicism is stunning to watch.
So you're in the same category as Pelosi, Kennedy, Chavez, your current pope. et al?
Or are you a traditionalist?
If for no other reason than to give the benefit of the doubt, I would assume Bergoglio’s heresy is material. But that view is reinforced when I see the other things that he says. The incoherent utterings about weapons, followed by his comments regarding Allied strategy vis-a-vis the death camps during WWII gives off a strong odor of... stupidity. He is not a towering intellect.
sitetest
Pray, yes.
But warn, as well.
These words are poison. I see them leading some Catholics off to pagan worship, and others to apostasy.
sitetest
But he is a cleric and a cleric is expected to know the Faith. Generally speaking, according to theologians, Catholics can not be material heretics.
Yes, I do know that. I will pick out the truths of the faith and disregard the parts that are not matters of faith. If we disregard the whole document, what are we saying about the truths that it does offer. We have to defend truth and be able to articulate what parts are not matters of faith and be able to explain the difference.
-— How much authority does the papal office give Francis to make definitive statements about climate change, or about science in general? None. Nada. Not a lick -—
Not true. Theology and philosophy set the limits of the natural sciences, especially the moral implications of scientific pursuits, procedures and experiments.
And, BTW, science was born in the West because of Christian dogmas regarding Creation which undergird modern science. See Stanley Jaki.
What about the parts that are matters of faith, but teach heresy? Like the pantheism in paragraph 83?
83. The ultimate destiny of the universe is in the fullness of God, which has already been attained by the risen Christ, the measure of the maturity of all things.[53] Here we can add yet another argument for rejecting every tyrannical and irresponsible domination of human beings over other creatures. The ultimate purpose of other creatures is not to be found in us. Rather, all creatures are moving forward with us and through us towards a common point of arrival, which is God, in that transcendent fullness where the risen Christ embraces and illumines all things. Human beings, endowed with intelligence and love, and drawn by the fullness of Christ, are called to lead all creatures back to their Creator.
Honestly. Picking out the good? If a bowl of soup has good stuff in it, but a little bit of poison, do you still eat the good stuff?
We need to keep in mind that Catholics have been indoctrinated to believe that they need to be spoon fed by “someone who knows”. They have been led to believe that if all believe something it must be right. Look at the doctrine of the assumption of Mary. It’s based on “most believe it anyway”. It matters not to them if it agrees with scripture or not.
“warn, as well”
We have been warned over and over again by Our Lady and various saints. It is all there with miracles that only God can preform. If they won’t listen to heaven, why would they listen to us? We have been told the only remedy we have in these times is to stay strong in our faith, preach the truth, and to pray. Pray for the pope, bishops, priests, families, the church, and sinners. If we are not doing that, we are contributing to the problem not the solution. That is the only solution we have been given.
By whom?
I admit that is very confusing. Is he calling humans “creatures?” Or is he meaning creatures as animals. If creatures mean humans it makes sense, but why call them creatures. If it means animals is does not make sense. Not unless creatures means aliens, then it all makes sense. Just joking, if you don’t laugh, you’ll just cry. I have no idea what he is talking about. Lord, help us!!
Heaven!
:-) I think we’ve had enough for today. :-)
Agreed!! :)
The Bible is 2000 years old, yet you claim you know it.
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