Why I am No Longer a Dispensationalist

Credo House ^ | May 21, 2015 | C. Michael Patton

[smvoice]

I’m confused. What did you think I would say?

[MHGinTN]

There is a way for you to know the Rapture comes before God's Wrath arrives. The work of the Holy Spirit in the Church of believers acts to restrain each believer from the sins he or she would naturally fall into, leap into even. The Holy Spirit works in the believer and works in the world as a restraint which holds back the evil tide of the man of sin. The Holy Spirit will not be gone from the Earth during the Tribulation because the Bible plainly shows salvation will be happening during the Tribulation. So which work of the Holy Spirit is going to be removed, which restraint is to be removed so the man of sin can be revealed? Yep, the presence of the Holy Spirit in the individual believer. And If He is leaving in that capacity, well, ZAP, you whom He indwells will be taken away too.

You want scripture for that little sermon? See:

IThess 4:18 (how comforting would it be to have to go through the wrath of God in order to be gathered up by Christ as His Bride?)

John 14:1-3 He is preparing a place so we may be there with Him, not here with Him ... He brings us back when He sets foot on earth the Second Time

IThess 4:13-17 Gathering happens in a moment and caught up together in the clouds, not on Earth, whereas the Second Coming will happen as an unfolding of events

Rev 3:10 and IThess 5:9 we are not appointed to wrath and He will keep the Church from THE HOUR of the testing, not keep us from the testing

IThess 1:10 and Titus 2:13 The Rapture can happen at any moment, without any signs to fulfill first, whereas any event timed in the Tribulation or after has signs attached to know the thing isspecifically timed

Matthew 25:31-46 Sort out the sheep and goats, and if The Rapture is at the end of Tribulation there are no sheep to separate from the goats, and the Bible says living believers saved during the tribulation will populate the Earth in the Millenial Kingdom whereas The Church will reign with Christ embodied 'as the Angels in Heaven, neither marrying or giving in marriage

Revelation 19 And finally, The Church is pictured in Heaven already having gone through the Judgment and clothed in white, not yet returned with Christ for the Second Coming

Pax vobiscum

[smvoice]

Amen, MHG. It’s common sense when reading God’s word that makes it so simple to understand!

[MHGinTN]

kerping

[A Formerly Proud Canadian]

Since we are saved by accepting Jesus and are then infilled with the Holy Spirit, how can anyone be saved after the ‘rapture’? After all, under dispensational pre-trib rapture theory, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are no longer here to infill those who ‘accept’ Jesus, as evangelised by the Jews so absent the Holy Spirit, how can ANY be saved?

Perhaps instead of debating with fellow Believers, and causing ill feelings, debating when and how Christ is going to return, we should focus on His last instructions to His disciples to ‘Go and make disciples of all nations.’

If He is as good as His Word, and I have no evidence to the contrary, He promises us Salvation. If we believe on Him, how history all ends should not matter if we are saved. Debating how history ends, takes time away from living the Great Commission and if we are not living that way, are we not robbing Jesus? Are we not inadvertantly doing the Evil One’s bidding by NOT focusing on the Great Commission? There are already too many things that I focus my attention on which take away from such a task.

[ravenwolf]

I was thinking of the spiritual Israel taking the place of the state of Israel, I see what you mean and I agree.

[smvoice]

:) Got it!

[captmar-vell]

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.” Luke 16:16

[ravenwolf]

I’m confused. What did you think I would say?

---

I was just teasing but just to be honest the Catholics think of me as a protestant and the protestants think I must be Catholic or Mormon.

I just have not found any denomination that I completely agree with and mostly I can find something to agree with in any of them.

[MHGinTN]

You really should study to show yourself approved a workman worthy of the hire. I bet you haven't a clue regarding Old Testament Saints and Church Saints and Tribulation Saints. And the work of the Holy Spirit must be a mystery to you in this Age. If you do good deeds for someone and they ask you about the hope that is within you, what will you tell them if you don't comprehend what God is doing in the Church Age, what His Holy Spirit is doing, and what He intends to do to cleanse the Earth?

Could it be that speaking the particulars of The Gospel makes you uncomfortable, but doing busy work makes you forget how much you've avoided learning? There are lessons shouting at you from the parable of the sower and the seed and the good seed that came up and brought forth harvest.

I know lots of church attenders who love to get busy doing work for God, in order to avoid His Throne room. If you are called to spread the Gospel, you better know what it is or your works will be in vane.

Such an attitude as you are presenting ('don't contend for the Faith, just do good works and leave the rest to God') is precisely the note upon which Chrislam will sweep the ignorant away, for Islam teaches good works are a saving grace, and you're attitude is too close to that same pitfall. The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been here, but in the Church Age He is also indwelling believers, thus making of them The Body of Christ to be Raptured away.

[smvoice]

..But those weren't His last words. His last words were spoken to Paul. And were revelations for the Church the Body of Christ. From Romans through Philemon. Giving us the beginning of the dispensation of the grace of God, the formation of the Church the Body of Christ, the role of the Body, when it began, what its duties are, and how it will end. Those things can only be found in Paul's epistles. Because the dispensation of grace was given to him from the risen Christ. Paul continually speaks of seeing and speaking to Christ face to face, and his being caught up to third heaven, and the revelations (PLURAL, NOT SINGULAR) that were given to him for the Church the Body of Christ.

We aren't preaching the Kingdom, Messianic gospel as Christ gave to Peter and the 11. We are preaching the Cross, the gospel of salvation by grace through faith, as given to Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles. We are ambassadors for Christ, preaching reconciliation between God and man, based solely on the finished work of Christ.

[smvoice]

You, sir/madam are a piece of work! Exactly what Christ is looking for, a piece of clay He can mold, who has no prior misconceptions that are so hard to get rid of! I shall follow your posts just to see what you have to say! ;)

God Bless,

smvoice

[MHGinTN]

Selah!

[tumblindice]

It’s been so dry in California, the Methodists have been sprinkling and the Baptists are using wet wash cloths.

[smvoice]

Uh, I just re-read my post to you and...you DID take it as a great compliment, didn’t you? Because that’s how I meant it! Although for some reason, it didn’t translate well when typed out and posted...!

[cookcounty]

The weakness of covenant theology is its readiness to become a Replacement Theology, i.e., “God has replaced Israel, because of it’s disobedience and sin, with the Church.” This pernicious view is at the root of the disgusting anti-Semitism so frequently found in Church history.

Yes, the Old Testament is full of stories of the people of Israel being unfaithful to God, BUT exactly the same can be said of the history of the Church. Given that the Church has had greater revelation, I would argue the Church has been even MORE rebellious against God.

Some of the Covenants with Israel were conditional, others, unconditional. The promise of the Land was unconditional, therefore it still stands today(God does not lie nor break his promises). The Covenant theologians disagree. It is no coincidence that among protestants, the most anti-Israel, friendly with Hezbollah denomination, is the Presbyterian-USA. And sadly Pope Francis is following the same arrogant prideful “Replacement” view that led to the sordid anti-Jewish record of the Catholic Church.

No, I’m not Jewish.

[ravenwolf]

Yes, I took it as a compliment and appreciate it although I do not often deserve compliments.

I often say things in trying to make a point that would sound better said in a different way but I only know a few words.

[cookcounty]

"Nope...the Catholic church was the Only Christian church for 1,600 years

What about the churches that existed BEFORE 1,600 years ago, i.e., the Assyrian, Chaldean, Coptic, Armenian, Georgian, all of which still exist today? They are "denominations" meaning organizations of local assemblies. AS is the Rome-Centric Catholic Church.

[Rashputin]

So just as Enoch was taken out before the first wrath, so shall we.

Christ wasn't taken away prior to the Crucifixion and as I read the New Testament we're to take up our cross and follow Christ, not Enoch.

Of course, being rescued from the roof of an embassy or survival bunker by a solid gold Huey after Christ surrenders to Satan and before the real persecution begins does sell a lot more books than suffering with Christ ever will.

[Mark17]

[Dallas Theological Seminary]

Well....I was a student of a guy who got his doctorate there. Nice guy, who’s name I will not mention in forum nor in message, has way different views than I.

I have personally known 5 or 6 Dallas grads. Hal Lindsey is another grad. There is one here on FR, who posts regularly.