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To: G Larry; metmom; MHGinTN
Imprimatur on what?  The RSV translation of Hebrews 10:14-39?  Because I went to your link, and entered the reference to the passage in question, and all I got was the Biblical text.  Now that is not what we are asking for.  We have the text. What we need to know is what is the official Roman interpretation. Back at post 177, MHGinTN offered an interpretation that is excellent, and accords well with my own belief on the matter.  

Simply put, Paul there is describing the cessation of the Mosaic system of sacrifice, and if those Jews who had come to be among the Christians for a while, and had ample evidence of the truth of the faith, but at some point couldn't put up with the persecution, and opted to return to Judaism, the message is grim.  If they go back to the shadow world of Moses, there is no further sacrifice they can look to for forgiveness of sin.  Jesus is it.  Like the last chance gas station at the edge of the desert, if they miss this, they will not make the crossing.

However, this is not apostasy as defined by the "we'll pencil you in" crowd (like the song says, "there's new name written down in pencil, and it's mine, oh yes it's mine ...").  The idea that one can have all their sins paid for, be sealed by the Spirit of God as a promissory note on our making the whole journey, be predestined by God, elect, determined by God's eternal decree to be sons and daughters unto Him, raised from spiritual death to a new and eternal life in Him, and yet be lost, is an idea not taught in Scripture.

For example, the Apostle John, when given a chance to explain those who have fallen away, does not say they were ever recipients of the new birth, or had the seed of God in them, or had been drawn and taught of the Father, or were in true possession of eternal life as those who believe in Jesus are, all of which he could have said, as those were all identifiers of true salvation he himself raised in other places. Instead, what does he do?  How does John explain apostasy?
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
(1 John 2:18-19)
So for John, apostasy is revelation of preexisting truth. The antichrists among them left them in order to reveal their true status, not to lose a status they once had, a status that elsewhere we find is permanent because it is in God's hands:
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
(John 6:37-40)
We who believe are gifts the Father gives the Son, and just as the Father has power to give us to Christ, He also has the power to determine that Christ will lose none of us.  We are the beneficiaries, but God the Father is the guarantor.  That is what makes the conclusion certain.  It's not about us.  It's about Him.

But what we lack from you is any definitive, guaranteed infallible discussion of what this passage in Hebrews 10 specifically means.  It would also be interesting to know the official, infallible, Roman position on 1 John 2:18-19, as shown above.  Your link does not point us to such official statements of Rome, Imprimatur not withstanding.  If the trumpeter blows with an uncertain sound, who can follow that? (1 Corinthians 14:8)

Peace,

SR


215 posted on 05/25/2015 9:11:38 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer

The words ARE the interpretation from the Septuagint.


217 posted on 05/25/2015 9:36:07 AM PDT by G Larry (Obama Hates America, Israel, Capitalism, Freedom, and Christianity.)
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To: Springfield Reformer

What you said.

Thanks, brother, for putting it so eloquently, as usual.


220 posted on 05/25/2015 9:40:48 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Springfield Reformer
Simply put, Paul there is describing the cessation of the Mosaic system of sacrifice, and if those Jews who had come to be among the Christians for a while, and had ample evidence of the truth of the faith, but at some point couldn't put up with the persecution, and opted to return to Judaism, the message is grim. If they go back to the shadow world of Moses, there is no further sacrifice they can look to for forgiveness of sin. Jesus is it. Like the last chance gas station at the edge of the desert, if they miss this, they will not make the crossing.

Demonstrably false; OSAS is a teaching of the Gentiles who abandoned the one holy catholic and apostolic church. Hebrews contradicts it; those who enter into the new covenant, Jew or Gentile, and sin willfully afterward can expect judgment, fiery indignation, and being devoured (imagine that for "the rapture").

As for Paul, he did not sign that letter, and he is a Hebrew of the Hebrews. Do you think Paul lied to the Holy Spirit, the Apostles, all Israel. and sinned in the temple here ?

And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Acts, Catholic chapter twenty one, Protestant verses seventeen to twenty six,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

233 posted on 05/26/2015 7:19:26 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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