Posted on 05/18/2015 6:05:47 PM PDT by Old Yeller
For years, growing up as a Roman Catholic, we were taught that we were members of the one true church. It was impressed upon us regularly by the parish priest during Mass while giving his homily; by the nuns all throughout my Catholic parochial school years of second through seventh grade.
It was impressed upon us during our preparation to receive for the first time the sacraments of Penance, Communion and Confirmation. And while attending CCD classes all the way through high school. (CCD is the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, an association established at Rome in 1562 for the purpose of giving religious education, normally designed for children.)
It was an established fact that we understood and we never questioned the validity of it. And to be honest, it was a matter of pride, that we were privileged enough to be members of the correct church, while all others had belonged to something else that didn’t quite measure up to the status of the Roman Catholic Church.
After all, how could it be possible that Roman Catholicism is not the one true church?
Look at what Rome has to offer: It has the priests, the nuns; the bishops; the cardinals; and of course, the Pope. They have the Sacraments; the statues; the holy water; the incense; the Stations of the Cross; the Eucharist - in which Chris supposedly physically manifests Himself into the wafer after the consecration by the priest during the Mass; the Marian apparitions—which appear mainly to Roman Catholics.
And they have the Vatican, where the Vicar of Christ (who they believe is Christ’s representative on earth), governs the faithful and makes infallible proclamations and doctrine. How can this not be the one true church? No other organization on the face of the earth comes close to offering to its flock what Rome provides for its faithful.
But, of course, to be true, one must adhere to what has been established as truth and not teach or practice what is contrary to the truth. We read in Scripture a few passages that declare what is truth and what is not. Jesus proclaimed in John 14:6:
“I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.”
And it's the same reasons for non-prominent people like boatbums and myself to leave the Catholic church.
Contrary to popular opinion, it's not only prominent people who leave the Catholic church for those reasons.
Yet DEPROGRAMLIBERALISM writes: “Intransigence is blindly choosing one to the exclusion of the other. You have more faith in mere men than in the Scriptures. So sad..”
Maybe DEPROGRAMLIBERALISM needs to undo the canonical texts because after all the early Church fathers displayed a remarkable intransigence in insisting that only the books they CHOSE, ASSEMBLED, and INTERPRETED them they way they did using the sacred oral tradition as a verifier source is the true Word of God.<<<
Of course they chose some books from among many that were also rejected, but considered. Someone had to. That doesn't make them infallible or all of their choices correct. The fact that the epistle of James contradicts other Bible authors on many important doctrines proves it to have been a wrong choice.
Yes, desperately clinging to the epistle of James as canonical in face of blatant contrary evidence that you refuse to address is intransigence.
You put a lot of weight in man's intellect. There are many highly intelligent people who are atheists. What did their intellect get them? I have worked with many Ph.Ds in my career and I can assure you that they can and do make mistakes, even in their areas of specialty.
As several persons have pointed out to you, the Bible doesn't have respect for man's intellect. Review the last part of 1 Corinthians 1 to see what Paul thinks of human intellect.
When reference response citations are made, such as to eminent Protestant theologians who after extensive study and teaching have converted to Catholicism, they are dismissed out of hand without so much a seven an effort to read their reasons.
How do you know that they haven't been read? Just because someone doesn't find them compelling is not proof that the quotes weren't read. Do you conscientiously read the testimonies of Catholics who have become Protestants? At least, I don't give any major credence to either type of testimony, so at least I'm consistent. Can you say that?
The same goes when reference is made to scriptural foundation for Catholic doctrine and traditions.
I read these with great interest and in detail. I have yet to find a uniquely Catholic doctrine or practice which has any compelling Scriptural support. Usually, at best, a case might be made for their belief.
Just look over your shoulders and see the usual coterie of FReepers on this thread who never tire of throwing up a Hungarian goulash of disparate scriptural quotations while demanding interpretations unhinged from sacred tradition, ritual and practice.
I commend them for asking you - I can't think of a better source of unhinged interpretations. ;-)
Lots of religions and religious belief systems have lasted as long as or longer than Catholicism.
By your reasoning then, they must be doing something right as well.
So tell us then. Which religion that's lasted as long or longer than Catholicism is the right one?
That is such a joke. And here I thought that being the *right religion* was based on truth instead of pedigree or longevity.
Did it ever occur to you that Satan protects his own and that longevity doesn't mean that someone is right because if the enemy wanted to keep men from Christ, he would encourage protect a successful religious system that did that?
I think CS Lewis had it right. That the enemy doesn't care what our life circumstances are, that whatever it takes to keep us from Christ is what he's going to use, even if it means a successful, healthy life here on earth as long as the ultimate goal of the soul ending up in hell is met. A successful comfortable life is just collateral damage in Satan's economy, not the preferred method of pain and suffering, but whatever it takes.
So I would not brag on longevity because it does not prove anything, much less that God is protecting something.
EVERYONE makes their own personal interpretation of Scripture.
Those who choose Catholicism and submit to it’s leadership is using their own personal opinion and interpretation to determine that the CCC and the Catholic church’s interpretation of Scripture is correct.
Just because y’all decide to accept that package deal that the RCC offers, doesn’t mean you didn’t use your own personal interpretation and opinion to arrive at that conclusion.
OK You weren't named by the author but I'll agree that others had these reasons. Still, I see no reason why the Catholic Church should change its positions because you disagree with it. Nevertheless, I'm sorry you left.
“Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
And how much intellectual prowess does a little child have?
Just what is it that's so appealing about little children?
Isn't it the trust they give you, when they look at you with those big, innocent eyes and believe everything you tell them?
As for me, I'll take looking at God and saying, *Abba, Daddy*.
I hate to burst your bubble, but you’re in a long line of people who have been asking the RC’s for years for proof of their oral *sacred* tradition, and not a ONE of them has been forthcoming.
Time and numbers mean nothing to God. It's where your faith is is what counts with Him.
We will recall that at one time Jesus had around 70 disciples following Him and after His teaching on the Bread of Life that number was whittled down to 11 faithful ones (12 if we count Judas).
In Acts 1 we see around 120 followers of Christ.
In regards to time the Muslim and Hindu could use your same argument to advance their claim to authenticity. Hinduism could actually claim a longer time frame that either Christianity or Islam; however, time is not the measure of faith.
So the real question today is, "Do you have faith in Christ as your Savior?"
Catholics should not brag on longevity because it does not prove anything....but they are “taught” to use this reasoning as sufficient to justify to themselves the catholic church is the place to be. It’s Churchianity...not Christianity.
Oh, that's a keeper. "The One True Church", "unbroken line all the way back to Peter", Sacred (sometimes secret) Traditions, "infallible". They spend WAY more time on Church, Peter and Mary, rituals, creeds, catechisms and incantations that its any wonder they have time for what the Disciples taught (Jesus Christ and Him crucified).
Amen.
Well, that just won’t do. Some minor counseling, shuffling around to another parish ought to do the trick.
One Priest go caught with a 15 yr. old he found on Craigs List to do the deeds with. He got caught in a car..pants down no less!
And those hands are *consecrating* the eucharist as if they were holy?
I wonder how his parishioners would feel about having him put the host on their tongue if they knew what those hands had been doing earlier in the day.
Well...you get what you ask for..as it goes. If they really believed their eucharist was all they say it’s cracked up to be, which of course it isn’t, then they’d be protesting this behavior among their Priesthood and others. However the mindset is that of “secrecy” and “protecting” that is far more significant then who’s touching their eucharist with body fluids on their hands.
HaHa...We've been trying to get an answer for a decade and a half...Guess they're still looking for those answers...
That's the same thing the followers of Jim Jones and the Branch Davidians did...
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