Roman Catholicism: The One True Church?

Rapture Ready ^ | Stephen Meehan

[Old Yeller]

For years, growing up as a Roman Catholic, we were taught that we were members of the one true church. It was impressed upon us regularly by the parish priest during Mass while giving his homily; by the nuns all throughout my Catholic parochial school years of second through seventh grade.

It was impressed upon us during our preparation to receive for the first time the sacraments of Penance, Communion and Confirmation. And while attending CCD classes all the way through high school. (CCD is the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, an association established at Rome in 1562 for the purpose of giving religious education, normally designed for children.)

It was an established fact that we understood and we never questioned the validity of it. And to be honest, it was a matter of pride, that we were privileged enough to be members of the correct church, while all others had belonged to something else that didn’t quite measure up to the status of the Roman Catholic Church.

After all, how could it be possible that Roman Catholicism is not the one true church?

Look at what Rome has to offer: It has the priests, the nuns; the bishops; the cardinals; and of course, the Pope. They have the Sacraments; the statues; the holy water; the incense; the Stations of the Cross; the Eucharist - in which Chris supposedly physically manifests Himself into the wafer after the consecration by the priest during the Mass; the Marian apparitions—which appear mainly to Roman Catholics.

And they have the Vatican, where the Vicar of Christ (who they believe is Christ’s representative on earth), governs the faithful and makes infallible proclamations and doctrine. How can this not be the one true church? No other organization on the face of the earth comes close to offering to its flock what Rome provides for its faithful.

But, of course, to be true, one must adhere to what has been established as truth and not teach or practice what is contrary to the truth. We read in Scripture a few passages that declare what is truth and what is not. Jesus proclaimed in John 14:6:

“I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.”

[BipolarBob]

Just go down to the library

I see. So you don't have any proof on your own. It must be in some library somewhere. As a Prot, I go by the Bible so some book someone supposedly wrote that theorizes a possibility just wouldn't really do it for me. But I am glad you are so easily assuaged. Good luck with that.

[rebel25]

Well if we are casting stones here Catholics party drink and gamble then go to the closet to get Forgiven which is up to God through Christ not man... The reason the curtain was torn from the top down Christ died to rectify man to God as a gift from God man has no authority over salvation other than to accept Christ as Lord no in betweens I stake my eternal soul on it

[terycarl]

For starters, there are Eastern Rite Catholic Churches that are as “Catholic” as the Latin Rite.

No one denies that....they separated over the issue of leadership....they are still Catholic and will return to the fold...

[ealgeone]

Show me where in the New Testament Jesus tells the apostles and disciples to write a “New Testament,” and that these writings are to be the ONLY source of truth for believers.

First, let's define truth to not include the sum total of all knowledge of science, math, history, etc. That argument is so old and makes one look foolish if it is employed.

We do have the written accounts so someone told somebody to start writing. And we know that was the Holy Spirit who moved the writers to do so.

We also know from early church history there were false teachings that were beginning to creep into the church...hence the need for a written collection of agreed upon texts by the church for use in the services to determine "truth". We also have John writing in two of his contributions that accounts were written so that we may believe Jesus is the Christ and if we believe we have life in His name (John 20:31, 1 John 5:13.

If the catholic attempts to fall back on John 20:30 (aka the catholic carte blanch verse), and they usually do, then "truth" is opened up to a variety of sources.

The Mormon could make their claim that Jesus did indeed visit North America. They could also appeal to the Book of Mormon as "truth".

The Hindu could also appeal to their writings as could the Muslim.

So unless the Bible is the only source of our spiritual truth and guide to knowing Christ and how to have eternal salvation, then you open yourself up to almost anything.

Apparently the early church was comfortable and understanding they needed an agreed upon source for truth. They chose the 27 books of the NT we have today along with the 39 books of the OT as their source of truth.

If it was good for them, it should be good for us today.

[goodwithagun]

You’re forgetting the most important factor: the cow! I’m assuming he’s Hindu.

[BipolarBob]

That is a total misinterpretation of that scripture it that Jesus was the Christ that the church is built upon not Peter

Well I called him on that as well. The Bible has it that Jesus (Him alone) is The Rock and the cornerstone that was rejected that His Church is built on. Nothing about Peter (nor him alone) being the foundation of any church. And there certainly isn't any mention of successors have any "special' distinction above any of the common folk.

[rebel25]

They were the church then went astray and people became literate and realized how wrong the popes were but no there is 1 church Christ church n all who put their faith in him realizing he is the only way to Heaven are part of His church

[goodwithagun]

Do you know what else Catholics have? Better grammar and mechanics. It can only be because of nuns. I urge you to find some. There is an order that lives across from us. They make great neighbors ;)

[BipolarBob]

2 Peter 1:21 'for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."
This was compelled from above that the Holy Word be recorded for our enlightenment and benefit.

[rebel25]

Not to mention the curtain being torn from the top down😃

[rebel25]

Curse of the reformation, that’s almost funny if it wasn’t so distressing... The reformation has led to a restoration of truth not a curse... I especially enjoyed the story of the pope tried for something after he was long dead as if his eternity wasn’t already decided

[ealgeone]

Could the fact that Mary was STILL ALIVE have something to do with it?

Presumption on your part. We do not know when Mary died.

[rebel25]

Funny I’m on my phone I know my spelling and grammar are not correct but good job insulting the msgr instead of the msg... Democrats are good at that to.

[ravenwolf]

It was the Catholic Church, based on Petrine authority,

---

I believe Peter most likely had the authority if any one did, no argument there.

Could you provide some scripture from Peter concerning the communion?

[Steelfish]

Well if you don't believe in Petrine authority then you must question the accuracy of the canonical books assembled in the Synod of Rome in AD 382 under Petrine authority that proclaimed the Written Word of God. You will also have to conclude that the great theologians of over various times: Augustine, Aquinas, Newman, and Benedict were all mistaken. As Augustine put it, ‘I would not believe in the Gospels were it not for the authority of the Catholic Church’ (Against the Letter of Mani Called "The Foundation" 5:6). Any Christian accepting the authority of the New Testament does so, whether or not he admits it, because he has implicit trust that the Catholic Church made the right decision in determining the Canon. "The fact is that the Holy Spirit guided the Catholic Church over time to recognize and determine the canon of the New and Old Testaments in the year 382 at the synod of Rome, under Pope Damasus I. This decision was ratified again at the councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397 and 419). You, my dear friends, accept exactly the same books of the New Testament that Pope Damasus decreed were canonical, and no others. No, you don't have to go into a library. This is not a place for classroom debate. But since you asked here's a short synopsis, if you care to read. It has been said of Non-Catholic Christians that there are so accustomed to swimming in shallow theological waters that they either are afraid to go into the deep end, or fi they do they either down or convert to Catholicism. So here an initial piece of proof. Christ: "You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church." Because Peter was made the foundation of the Church, there were practical implications: it gave him a special place or primacy among the apostles. As the passages below demonstrate, the early Church Fathers, the very same Fathers who had a hand in assembling the canonical texts clearly recognized this. 
 Clement of Alexandria "[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly g.asped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? ‘Behold, we have left all and have followed you’ [Matt. 19:27; Mark 10:28]" (Who Is the Rich Man That Is Saved? 21:3–5 [A.D. 200]). Tertullian "For though you think that heaven is still shut up, remember that the Lord left the keys of it to Peter here, and through him to the Church, which keys everyone will carry with him if he has been questioned and made a confession [of faith]" (Antidote Against the Scorpion 10 [A.D. 211]). "[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church" (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]). The Letter of Clement to James "Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect" (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]). Origen "[I]f we were to attend carefully to the Gospels, we should also find, in relation to those things which seem to be common to Peter . . . a great difference and a preeminence in the things [Jesus] said to Peter, compared with the second class [of apostles]. For it is no small difference that Peter received the keys not of one heaven but of more, and in order that whatsoever things he binds on earth may be bound not in one heaven but in them all, as compared with the many who bind on earth and loose on earth, so that these things are bound and loosed not in [all] the heavens, as in the case of Peter, but in one only; for they do not reach so high a stage with power as Peter to bind and loose in all the heavens" (Commentary on Matthew 13:31 [A.D. 248]). Cyprian of Carthage "The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]). Cyril of Jerusalem "The Lord is loving toward men, swift to pardon but slow to punish. Let no man despair of his own salvation. Peter, the first and foremost of the apostles, denied the Lord three times before a little servant girl, but he repented and wept bitterly" (Catechetical Lectures 2:19 [A.D. 350]). "[Simon Magus] so deceived the city of Rome that Claudius erected a statue of him. . . . While the error was extending itself, Peter and Paul arrived, a noble pair and the rulers of the Church, and they set the error aright. . . . [T]hey launched the weapon of their like-mindedness in prayer against the Magus, and struck him down to earth. It was marvelous enough, and yet no marvel at all, for Peter was there—he that carries about the keys of heaven [Matt. 16:19]" (ibid., 6:14). "In the power of the same Holy Spirit, Peter, both the chief of the apostles and the keeper of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, in the name of Christ healed Aeneas the paralytic at Lydda, which is now called Diospolis [Acts 9:32–34]" (ibid., 17:27). Ephraim the Syrian "[Jesus said:] Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on Earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples. Through you I will give drink to all peoples. Yours is that life-giving sweetness which I dispense. I have chosen you to be, as it were, the firstborn in my institution so that, as the heir, you may be executor of my treasures. I have given you the keys of my kingdom. Behold, I have given you authority over all my treasures" (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]). Ambrose of Milan "[Christ] made answer: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church. . . .’ Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]?" (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]). Pope Damasus I "Likewise it is decreed . . . that it ought to be announced that . . . the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. The first see, therefore, is that of Peter the apostle, that of the Roman Church, which has neither stain nor blemish nor anything like it" (Decree of Damasus 3 [A.D. 382]). Jerome "‘But,’ you [Jovinian] will say, ‘it was on Peter that the Church was founded’ [Matt. 16:18]. Well . . . one among the twelve is chosen to be their head in order to remove any occasion for division" (Against Jovinian 1:26 [A.D. 393]). "Simon Peter, the son of John, from the village of Bethsaida in the province of Galilee, brother of Andrew the apostle, and himself chief of the apostles, after having been bishop of the church of Antioch and having preached to the Dispersion . . . pushed on to Rome in the second year of Claudius to overthrow Simon Magus, and held the sacerdotal chair there for twenty-five years until the last, that is the fourteenth, year of Nero. At his hands he received the crown of martyrdom being nailed to the cross with his head towards the ground and his feet raised on high, asserting that he was unworthy to be crucified in the same manner as his Lord" (Lives of Illustrious Men 1 [A.D. 396]). Pope Innocent I "In seeking the things of God . . . you have acknowledged that judgment is to be referred to us [the pope], and have shown that you know that is owed to the Apostolic See [Rome], if all of us placed in this position are to desire to follow the apostle himself [Peter] from whom the episcopate itself and the total authority of this name have emerged" (Letters 29:1 [A.D. 408]). Augustine "Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear ‘I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven’" (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]). "Some things are said which seem to relate especially to the apostle Peter, and yet are not clear in their meaning unless referred to the Church, which he is acknowledged to have represented in a figure on account of the primacy which he bore among the disciples. Such is ‘I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of heaven,’ and other similar passages. In the same way, Judas represents those Jews who were Christ’s enemies" (Commentary on Psalm 108 1 [A.D. 415]). "Who is ignorant that the first of the apostles is the most blessed Peter?" (Commentary on John 56:1 [A.D. 416]). Council of Ephesus "Philip, presbyter and legate of [Pope Celestine I] said: ‘We offer our thanks to the holy and venerable synod, that when the writings of our holy and blessed pope had been read to you . . . you joined yourselves to the holy head also by your holy acclamations. For your blessednesses is not ignorant that the head of the whole faith, the head of the apostles, is blessed Peter the apostle’" (Acts of the Council, session 2 [A.D. 431]). "Philip, the presbyter and legate of the Apostolic See [Rome] said: ‘There is no doubt, and in fact it has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the apostles, pillar of the faith, and foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors’" (ibid., session 3). Pope Leo I "Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . has placed the principal charge on the blessed Peter, chief of all the apostles, and from him as from the head wishes his gifts to flow to all the body, so that anyone who dares to secede from Peter’s solid rock may understand that he has no part or lot in the divine mystery. He wished him who had been received into partnership in his undivided unity to be named what he himself was, when he said: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18], that the building of the eternal temple might rest on Peter’s solid rock, strengthening his Church so surely that neither could human rashness assail it nor the gates of hell prevail against it" (Letters 10:1 [A.D. 445). "Our Lord Jesus Christ . . . established the worship belonging to the divine [Christian] religion. . . . But the Lord desired that the sacrament of this gift should pertain to all the apostles in such a way that it might be found principally in the most blessed Peter, the highest of all the apostles. And he wanted his gifts to flow into the entire body from Peter himself, as if from the head, in such a way that anyone who had dared to separate himself from the solidarity of Peter would realize that he was himself no longer a sharer in the divine mystery" (ibid., 10:2–3). "Although bishops have a common dignity, they are not all of the same rank. Even among the most blessed apostles, though they were alike in honor, there was a certain distinction of power. All were equal in being chosen, but it was given to one to be preeminent over the others. . . . [So today through the bishops] the care of the universal Church would converge in the one See of Peter, and nothing should ever be at odds with this head" (ibid., 14:11).

[Kartographer]

A sane voice cries out from the chaos and the vitriol which is the FR religion forum

Porthos: You know, it strikes me that we would be better employed wringing Milady's pretty neck than shooting these poor devils of Protestants. I mean, what are we killing them for? Because they sing psalms in French and we sing them in Latin?
Aramis: Porthos, have you no education? What do you think religious wars are all about?
'The Three Musketeers' - Dumas

Last place to look for religion any religion is the FR Religion Forum where you will find many who believe only their way meets Jesus' first command and few if any meet his second one.

Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:37-40

[BipolarBob]

I believe Peter most likely had the authority if any one did, no argument there.

What would move you to think one Apostle had greater authority/power than any other? They themselves argued over it and Jesus did not designate anyone. So, speculation is all you have.

[rebel25]

No I do no discount the Bible but just as people’s are not perfect neither are man’s organizations... The catholic church is an organization made up by man... It went astray somewhere in between the witch hunts and the inquisition or the indulgences or the politicking through the centuries. The Bible is God’s literal infallible Word of God... The church is wrong not the Word

[BipolarBob]

My eyes still hurt from that. I gathered I have to accept Petrine authority or reject the NT. I refuse to accept that premise from the get-go.
#1 It's Gods Word, not the Catholics. I can reject Petrine authority and Marys sinlessness and any other thing un-Biblical.
#2 Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom as did He all of the Apostles. He did not say to Peter, "I give you the Keys to the Kingdom alone"
#3 No pre-eminence was given of any Apostle to be over the others - none. They may have argued amongst themselves but Jesus did NOT designate anyone for this (non-existent) position and He certainly had the opportunities to do so.

[Steelfish]

I guess the disciples of Christ and the Church He founded to spread the ONE truth for All times was a commission not given to men?

You must then doubt the canonical texts as well since these were established by men: the early Church Fathers (theologians) under Petrine authority?

You must question the intellect and faith of the great theologians: Catholics and non-Catholic who converted to Catholicism because they were men?

You see we are not talking about men or women. We are speaking here about Petrine authority, an authority Christ gave to men.

St. Augustine put it this way: ‘I would not believe in the Gospels were it not for the authority of the Catholic Church’ (See: Against the Letter of Mani Called “The Foundation” 5:6).

Matthew 16:19

“And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of the heavens; and whatsoever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be bound in the heavens; and whatsoever thou mayest loose on the earth shall be loosed in the heavens.”