1. The Saints in Heaven are Alive, not Dead, as their spirits are with the Lord, the only place that that Scripture clearly teaches is the next place for believers after this life, not Cath. purgatory, wherever Scripture manifestly deals with this issue. (Lk. 23:39-43; Acts 7:59; Phil. 1:21-23; 2Cor. 5:8; 1Thes. 4:17)
Nor are the Saints a distinct class of believers, as Scripture teaches that all believers are saints, using the word interchangeably for believers , as even the Corinthians were washed, sanctified and justified in the name of Jesus and by the Spirit of God. (1Cor. 6:11). already accepted in the Beloved and seated with Christ, (Eph. 1:6; 2:6)
And in Scripture all sanctifying work is done in this world with its trials and temptations, in which there is an sinful alternative to suffering. And thus it was here that the Lord was made "perfect," in the sense being tempted in all points like as we are, yet without sin. (Heb. 4:15)
Meanwhile, the only postmortem suffering spoken of is that of suffering the loss of rewards, and thus the grievous shame of the Lord's disapproval, at the judgment seat of Christ, and which is at the return of the Lord, not commencing at death. See here .
Even the EO's tend to reject Rome's purgatory (though they have a theory of preparation)
Also, the Orthodox Church does not believe in indulgences as remissions from purgatorial punishment. Both purgatory and indulgences are inter-corrolated theories, unwitnessed in the Bible or in the Ancient Church, and when they were enforced and applied they brought about evil practices at the expense of the prevailing Truths of the Church. If Almighty God in His merciful loving-kindness changes the dreadful situation of the sinner, it is unknown to the Church of Christ. The Church lived for fifteen hundred years without such a theory. — http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7076
2. The Saints in Heaven are Witnesses, not Sleeping or Ignorant, but Rv. 6:9-11 that the RCs compel to support them only shows they crying out for judgment, which could have been due to the increase of martyred souls arriving in Heaven, indicating the time of judgment should be near.
Likewise, RCs compel Heb. 12:1-2 to support them, but which is not speaking about communicating with the departed, but in context (Heb. 11) that of being in the company of such as part of the same body.
In any case, this query for judgment simply does not support created beings in Heaven being able to hear prayers addressed to them and respond , not does offering up prayers as a memorial at the time of the day of the Lord.
In fact, nowhere does the Spirit ever record even one prayer, supplications or offerings addressed to anyone else by God - except by pagans - even though He records over 200 in Scripture! Argument by silence much?
3. The Saints in Heaven are Still Part of the Church, yet neither this, nor exhortations to pray for each others teach that created beings in Heaven are able to hear and respond to prayer from earth addressed to them in Heaven, and do so.
Moreover, from what I see, all two-way communication required both created beings to somehow be consciously operating in the same realm.
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“What saith the Scriptures?” (Rm. 4:3; 11:2; Gal. 4:30) “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:6)” |
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1 |
Prayers in Scripture addressed to God in Heaven |
Over 200 prayers, besides instruction on prayer to Heaven. (“Our Father who art in Heaven,” not “Out Mother.”) |
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Prayers in Scripture addressed to any created beings in Heaven |
ZERO prayers or examples, or in instruction on prayer to Heaven |
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2 |
Examples or teaching showing God being able to hear and respond to prayer from earth addressed to Him in Heaven. |
Multiple. “I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee..” (2 Kings 20:5; cf. Ps. 65:2; 66:19,20; Lk 1:13) |
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Examples or teaching showing created beings being able to hear and respond to prayer from earth addressed to them in Heaven. |
ZERO. Angels and elders offering up prayers before the judgments of the last days in memorial (Rev. 5:8 and 8:3,4; f. Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15) does not constitute this ability, which is unique to God. |
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3 |
Examples or teaching showing God able to personally communicate with man from Heaven. |
Many. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. (2 Corinthians 12:8-9) |
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Examples or teaching showing created beings being able to converse with man from Heaven. |
ZERO. From what I see, all two-way communication required both created beings to somehow be consciously operating in the same realm. |
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4 |
Examples or teaching Christ as being the heavenly intercessor between man and God. |
Many. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (Hebrews 2:18) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:15-16) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25) |
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Examples or teaching any as created beings as heavenly intercessor between man and God. |
ZERO. See under 2 above. |
And almost daily we are told here by FRoman Catholics that they do not pray to but ask the saints to pray for them to God.