Posted on 04/20/2015 1:46:59 PM PDT by NYer
I don’t try to read minds. When someone says “we don’t pray to Mary or the saints” I take them at their word. Especially when the statement was made in regard to the statement that they do pray to saints and Mary and ask for specific tasks be performed by those saints and Mary.
Oh, we find a lot of stuff there. Like how Catholics and Muslims have the same god.
And like how the creation days are viewed symbolically.
Too bad catholics don't seem to know the ccc as well as Christians do.
Bottom line. The god that Muslims describe is NOT the God described in scripture. It’s a different god. If you believe you serve the same god just say so. I serve the God of scripture.
Does your religious community confess there is only one God, the God of Abraham ?
There's that...
>>The RCC has through history taught and then retracted several interpretations of scripture.<<
I asked you to cite examples of scripture that the Catholic Church retracted. You have posted general historical information about the Church, all of which are interesting but not the scriptural passages you assert the church has retracted. Can you please post these?
As catholics have told us so often, the Bible is not their final authority so we will "appeal" to their tradition where a number of doctrines have changed.
Prior to Vatican II all non-Catholic churchgoers will go to Hell.
That's a pretty big change.
The God of Abraham is not the god of the Muslims. No, sir. Jehovah and Allah are not, nor have they ever been, nor will they ever be, the same.
You miss the point, and the question. There is only one God, not two, not three, not many. I asked if you acknowledge the God of Abraham as the only one God. You answered that the Moslem description of God differs from yours. Do you apply the same standard to Jews who also believe there is only one God who is the Creator, the God of Abraham ?
Those are just prayers said to someone who is loved and honored very much for her unique role in salvation history. Why is that so repellant? Why is it so abhorrent to love Mary for her “yes”? To trust in her love for us that she will indeed pray for us when/if we “offer ourselves entirely” to her or “put all our hopes” in her.
Tell me something: do you honestly believe that any Catholic who prays those prayers does so in order to worship Mary like some kind of goddess? That our only desire when praying such prayers is to exalt her even above God? That our ultimate desire is NOT that we attain the Beatific Vision of God, face to face? These are yes or no questions.
Because I can tell you now that is NOT the motivation for any devotion to Mary (or any Saint). At least not the true Catholic reason. The true reason for such prayers and others similar is to gain the Beatific Vision through Mary’s intercessory prayer.
You would do yourself a favor to read this as well (it’s not that long just a page). http://archivio.traces-cl.com/otto01/ptn.htm
Then you will understand (if your heart truly desires the truth, not just to be “right”) what true devotion to Mary means.
Veni Sancte Spiritus. Veni per Mariam!
So you believe the God of Abraham is not the God of the Muslims. Do you believe the God of Abraham is the God of the Jews ?
So it’s not what you or any other man thinks they see from outward appearance, it’s what God sees in our hearts.
I agree wholeheartedly with that...And yet,,,
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
When we see and hear you guys giving the glory of God to others by asking them to provide only what God can provide, and dedicate your lives to them (Mary) you reveal what's in your heart for all to see, not just God...
All men are flawed, even you. That is precisely why Jesus left us a Church with the Paraclete to guide it.
We do not have a doctrine of "Qadar" or "divine fore-ordainment" in Christian theology compelling sin. That is a Muslim concept. Judas' actions were not caused by God, He knew what they would be and He permitted the exercise of freewill to serve His plan for Salvation.
The Church regards with esteem also the Muslims. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in himself; merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. - Nostra Aetate 3
Is this a trick question or do you really believe that Salvation is a reward and not an unmerited gift?
You had better hope you are right because you have bet eternity on your own very limited powers of interpretation and discernment.
Brilliant!
The term evolved to from the combination of the prepositional phrase "Kath oles" (throughout all) and the word used for the organized, structured Church (ekklesia) such that by 109 AD when St. Ignatius used the term it needed no definition or explanation meaning that it was already well known and understood by the recipients of his letters.
(And for the record I betting there are a lot of things you haven't seen).
And that is exactly why God didn't leave it up to you.
Ad that is a spin worthy of professional bowling.....
I specifically said that two supposedly "dead" people spoke to Jesus who was fully present in human form such that the Apostles witnessed it. You did not address that.
How many Gods do you think there are?
"And like how the creation days are viewed symbolically."
Please provide a citation because that is not Church teaching.
"Too bad catholics don't seem to know the ccc as well as Christians do."
A Christian is one who believes in the divinity of Jesus. The Prologue of the Catechism, the very first line is: PROLOGUE "FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" - than the name of JESUS."
(Please refrain from bluffing with respect to knowing Catholic teaching. I am a certified Catechist by the Church. I will call you on it every time you try it.)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.