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To: Talisker
I'm surprised to hear that RI and MA Catholics, with their abortion and sexual vice-supporting Congressional delegations, know anything at all about obedience.

Let me offer an alternative hypothesis: their abandonment of Catholic faith and morals in their discharge of their public responsibilities as citizens, reflects not obedience but wayward self-will.

29 posted on 04/18/2015 2:57:12 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Power always thinks that it is doing God's service when it is violating all His laws." - John Adams)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Morpheus2009
Mrs. Don-o: Let me offer an alternative hypothesis: their abandonment of Catholic faith and morals in their discharge of their public responsibilities as citizens, reflects not obedience but wayward self-will.

Morpheus2009: Being religious, at least from my experience, is something that you TRAIN yourself to be, by my own honest accounts. Sure, when I started running 5K races, I took 25 minutes to complete the race, two years later, it was a different story. Same with being a decent human being. Takes training to be such, at least for me. I prefer to think of morality as a sport, it’s something you have to train and maintain in yourself.

A pertinent point (and I am not backpeddling here) is that I was addressing Catholics who are also liberals. Which means the psychological similarities I pointed out are shared.

By definition, therefore, I am not talking about Catholics who are conservatives. Because while a liberal Catholic and a conservative Catholic can stand side-by-side and recite the same catechism, the liberal recites it out of obedience for the sake of obedience, while the conservative Catholic recites it for the sake of obedience from understanding and a personal decision of agreement.

I am not buttering up conservative Catholics. I'll argue about Catholicism all day long with any of you : ) What I mean is, to a liberal Catholic, if I argue with them about some aspect of the catechism, they will respond to the fact that I am arguing about the catechism at all. In other words, they see it as a challenge to the unity of their obedience.

A conservative Catholic, however, will ask me what issues I disagree with, and go there with me. They are not frightened that I have objections. Their faith is not personally attacked because they have to look at specifics and details and defend their own knowledge. Again, I mean no flattery in this.

Simply put, conservative Catholics will act in this way for the same reason they are politically conservative - because they think things through for themselves and take personal responsibility for their decisions. So in the case of religion, they are the same as they are in politics and anything else - they want to know how it works, why it works, who said it, why they said it, and where the reference material is. It's just them. And in the specific case of Catholicism, these people are Catholics because as a result of that process, upon the study of Catholic teachings and personal reflection, they choose to be obedient because after studying it, they agree with it - and know why they agree with it.

Liberal Catholics follow the same general route of unified psychological approach - except their modus operandi for their lives is obedience for the sake of obedience for the sake of the herd effect. So when it comes to politics, they go with the herd and get shrill and defensive if challenged on facts and personal position. Same with Catholicism - they accept it in the way that is "fashionable" for the crowd they run with.

And if that crowd is politically liberal, then a way has to be found to be Catholic while still being liberal. And so they follow those who decide upon such a path for the collective they are a part of - and do not like to be questioned about it. Because for them, the issues are irrelevent - even specific religious issues. For them, the obedience is the entire subject of every subject, including Catholicism.

Two entirely separate universes.

31 posted on 04/18/2015 6:58:49 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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