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To: Mrs. Don-o
LDS acceptance of large amounts of new Scripture, none of it previously attested to before the 19th century, places the LDS at variance with all of historic Christianity. And I think Mormons would thoughtfully accept that statement as a fact. Am I right?

Totally correct. This is the official position of the Church.

Therefore Joseph Smith saw himself as restoring the ancient Church.

Except the word "saw". It's more complex than that.

Joseph wanted to join a church, however he couldn't decide which one. So he went out to a grove of trees, knelt down and prayed to God for the answer.

Part of his account of what followed is below:

"16...I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me."

"17 ...When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!"


God followed the pattern He has followed since the time of Adam and raised up a prophet. The full account can be found here.

So, no we are not a denomination tracing it's roots back to the council of Nicaea. We are the Church of Jesus Christ that was abandoned by man in 1rst and 2nd centuries, restored by Jesus Christ and His Heavenly Father.
684 posted on 04/13/2015 11:06:04 AM PDT by StormPrepper
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To: StormPrepper
Thanks for this response, which was helpful and to the point.

Could you tell me more about the general apostasy to which you refer? I mean historic facts or a least strong inferences about the time, the place, the people involved: names and so forth. Anything that could count has historic evidence. You say "first or second century," but that is a little vague: the last of the Apostles didn't even die until AD 100 (St. John). So if it happened in the 1st century, then the Church disappeared before the Apostles did.

It's interesting to me that the Mormons, the Muslims, and the exponents of the Radical Reformation all agreed that Christ's (original) Church failed.

687 posted on 04/13/2015 11:20:15 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (I believe in One God, the Father Almighty. Creator of Heaven and Earth.)
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To: StormPrepper
"17 ...When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!"

The record SHOWS that the other 'personage' never DID speak!

Hear him say WHAT???


On a similar note; I've always wondered what and Angel of Light would appears as...


... the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description...

Looks like we'll never know...

783 posted on 04/14/2015 3:59:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
We are the Church of Jesus Christ that was abandoned by man in 1rst and 2nd centuries, restored by Jesus Christ and His Heavenly Father.

And your church has CORRECTED the error found in the KJV bible with the Inspired Version: the JST.

Yet it is NOT used and the KJV is clung to.

Strange actions of a church that claims to be the only CORRECT one.

784 posted on 04/14/2015 4:01:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: StormPrepper
This is the official position of the Church.



 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses , vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

789 posted on 04/14/2015 4:11:33 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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