Posted on 03/24/2015 4:54:05 PM PDT by ebb tide
Excellent. In that spirit, I suggest you check this out:
The Complete Ante-Nicene & Nicene and Post-Nicene Church Fathers Collection: 3 Series, 37 Volumes, 65 Authors, 1,000 Books, 18,000 Chapters, 16 Million Words
Catholics ignore much of Scripture on this topic:
Mark 9:38 John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. 40 For the one who is not against us is for us. 41 For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.
Oh, yes...
Their thinly veiled hit pieces against "sola scriptura" are pretty obvious. And then when we rebut, we are called "attackers." LOL!!!
"The Apostles" being the current "magisterium," which dictates what the teachings of the church are, right?
NONE of the original apostles even hinted at the practice of the "dulia" directed a Mary in all of their teachings and writings; if they did, we would have gotten a book full about that. And yet, here it is, in every Roman Church.
Were you there?
The Church came before the gospels. Jesus didn’t say go forth and write. John got his orders and did he not say there were many other things Christ did that the world couldn’t contain the books had they been written?
Do you use the bible or torah? How’d you get that bible?
Do me a favor, go read the fathers... Those who were actually taught by them. But I bet you know more than they do as well... or will ask for proof.
.
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Now, prove that the apostles taught the assumption of Mary and the requirement to believe it.
>>Jesus didn’t say go forth and write.<<
Revelation 1:19 Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.
>>John got his orders and did he not say there were many other things Christ did that the world couldn’t contain the books had they been written?<<
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
>>Those who were actually taught by them.<<
The seven churches written to in Revelation are an indication of how fast they can go apostate. Six of the seven were at risk of being rejected by Christ. Not good odds on those "church fathers".
Your post proves the point. We can’t have every Tom, Dick and Harry crack open the pages of the Bible (books put together with the infallible authority of the Catholic Church) and offer us his/her definitive interpretation by throwing out swatches of scripture.
Perhaps you know something that the great constellation of Catholic theologians and particularly eminent Episcopalians and Lutherans who who converted to Catholicism did not know and missed out.
What we have is the precise curse of Protestantism that has led to a torrential mudslide of interpretations from how Jim Jones and David Koresh “interpreted” Scripture to the pure vapid nonsense and rubbish preached by lightweights such as the likes of Billy Grahams; Joel Osteens, Jimmy Swaggarts, Benny Hinns and the Rev. Jeremiah Wrights of this world whose Bible-Christian congregants lap up their nonsense because their knowledge of Scripture is as shallow as the theological waters in which they swim in.
Cynical Bear’s post makes matters even worst. If you think the Catholic Church can’t prove the infallible “truth” based on the authority of Christ, then you must also doubt the very infallibility that allowed it to select the canonical texts. You can’t have it both ways.
The Petrine doctrine of infallibility did not evaporate with the Reformation that took place ELEVEN centuries after the books in the Bible were authenticated as the true Word of God in AD 382 in the Synod of Rome. And of course only the Church carries out the non-written Word of God (John 21: 25) as understood in the liturgies and practices of the early Church.
By there is another absurdity that follows. If the Catholic Church can’t prove the truth of what it instructs, then who can? Then we have multiple truths each one believing “his/her” own truth. But this contradicts the Great Commission given to Peter and his successors to “Go forth and teach..” This is to teach ONE truth and only the Church teaches ONE truth for all times in all places when it acts with the infallible Petrine authority.
This is why after a lifetime of scholarship, writing, teaching, and preaching, several leading Lutherans have converted to Catholicism. Of course the most notable was the brilliant Anglican Cardinal Newman whose book “The Catholic Church” is a tour de force. But Protestants in the pews will not have the intellectual stomach to read these works or for that matter the great works of Augustine, Aquinas, Newman, and Benedict. Or the lives of its saints, martyrs, stigmatists. One wonders why??
In the end, today Protestantism has been reduced to a sad caricature when low-information Protestants are left stranded in the pews while their theologians head for the Catholic Church, the city on the hill.
Coming from a cult that harbored child rapists, your post is almost laughable.
Nice switch from dogma. Oh so now you attack the personal lives of individuals as if there are no murderers, pedophiles, adulterers, among Protestant pastors. Very telling.
Explain it to the children in Catholic parishes that harbored child rapists disguised as priests.
John 20:30
"Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book."
John 21:25
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written."
2 John 1:12
"Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink. Instead I hope to come to you and talk face to face, so that our joy may be complete."
3 John 1:13-14
"I had much to write to you, but I would rather not write with pen and ink. I hope to see you soon, and we will talk face to face."
All that, plus Jesus' own assurance:
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you.
At one time I, myself, was strangely incurious abut all this. It's only in the last few years that I became more analytical about it, and realized how important it is to grasp the essential, Biblical view that we have NOT been given just a book. As if, "For God so loved the world, that He sent a book." We have been given a Church, which is a centuries-spanning, millennia-spanning, culture, language and civilizations-spanning reality of God's people united. I don't just mean this in a Western jurisdictional sense ("Rome") I mean it in a sense of a powerful hermeneutic of continuity.
It's 10:20, past my bedtime.
God night, fwdude, and God bless you.
Of course thanks, you keep making my point. Before one practices it or not, you must know the infallible Word of God. Among Catholic believers are saints, martyrs and sinners, and in case you need reminding sinners turned saints. Try reading the life of St. Augustine.
Catholics like to trot out the names of the likes of David Koresh and others who have misused scripture but overlook their own evil popes, bishops, and priests throughout history and even today. One can only think hypocrites.
Catholics like to claim ownership of scripture yet can't justify many of their own beliefs or practices with it. Scripture says the word of God was entrusted to the Jews yet Catholics add books that the Jews denied as scripture.
Catholics by their own admission incorporate pagan beliefs and practices which God clearly condemned.
Scripture clearly states that each true believer would have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide and teach not some "theologians and eminent scholars". Jesus said wherever two or three were gathered in His name He would be with them not confined to some so called sacred cracker.
Christ is building His assembly from the lowly of this world not the pompous and arrogant Nicolaitan "theologians and eminent scholars" who He called vipers and hypocrites.
This is beyond absurd. By your lights the early Church Fathers (theologians) were vipers etc... who assembled the authentic Word of God. This is the sad rebuttal of Protestants who are accustomed to swimming in the very shallow end of the theological pool, taken them to the deep end of the pool they down.
Thus the great saints and theologians of our times, the martyrs, and stigmatists all got it wrong until the curse of Protestantism came upon the earth ELEVEN centuries after the Synod of Rome in AD 382.
The point of course, is that the more true and honest scholarship inquiry takes place, Protestantism is exposed for what its worth, a shallow and erroneous view of scripture from the vapid interpretations of Billy Graham to Jim Jones and David Koresh and everything else in between. This is all fine for low-information Christians but pleas refrain from telling the Catholic Church with its rich tradition of towering intellectuals and theologians what is God’s Word. That is too much effrontery to bear.
**Keep praying, keep hoping. And keep watching. This is going to be instructive. **
Amen! Some of these Bishops need lots of prayers.
The oracles of God were entrusted to the Jews not the Catholics. Already by 96AD when Revelation was written 85% of the churches were already off track. Relying on anyone after that is risky at best.
Every possible gradation or degree of honor is not catalogued in the Bible. Yet the honor given to Mary is prefigured in the Bible:
1 Kings 2:18-20
When Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, the king stood up to meet her, bowed down to her and sat down on his throne. He had a throne brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down at his right hand.
“I have one small request to make of you,” she said. “Do not refuse me.”
The king replied, “Make it, my mother; I will not refuse you.”
An example of the honor it was proper for a King to show the Queen Mother.
And Mary herself prophesied: "All generations will call me Blessed." .
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