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To: ealgeone

Ah, a little humor never hurt anyone. Now to the crux of the matter.

Evangelicals and other kinds of Protestants in their commendable zeal often distill the writings of Saint Paul to such an extent that they miss the complexities and nuances of the Apostle. This is especially the case when it comes to Saint Paul’s doctrine of salvation. As a result, the Evangelical doctrine of “once saved always saved” misses the nuances of Paul’s doctrine. Paul does in fact teach that “nothing can separate us from the love of God” (Rom 8:39). However, he also clearly states that certain Christians have “fallen from grace” (Gal 5:4). What does the Apostle mean when he says that certain Christians have fallen from grace?

The Apostle explains, “I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize” (1 Cor 9:27). Here the prize is salvation, as is clear from the preceding verses. Saint Paul follows a disciplined life because he knows that there is a possibility that he might forfeit the salvation that he preaches. For this reason, in the very next chapter, Paul encourages the Christians in Corinth to do the same: “So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall” (1 Cor 10:12). The “fall” here is the “fall from grace” spoken about by Paul in Galatians 5:4. Interestingly enough, the warning about falling from grace in Galatians 5:4 is immediately followed up by Paul’s exhortation to have “faith working through love” in Galatians 5:6.

Since the Apostle believes that one might fall from grace, he elsewhere encourages the Christians in Philippi to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). Here again we see Paul’s emphasis on a “faith working through love” (Gal 5:6). We are to work out our salvation. While it is a gift, it requires our effort. If you receive the gift of a bicycle, it is worthless until you actually get on the bike and start peddling. If the giver of the gift saw the bicycle leaning against the wall in your garage covered in dust, he would be offended. The giver wanted the recipient to enjoy cycling, but this intention was never realized. The same is true of salvation. The gift of salvation has been given to us so that we can be conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29). This is a profound honor. We are called not only to believe in Christ, but also to become like Christ. We participate in the life of Christ. It is for this reason that we are called Christians. This means that our life is characterized by acts pertaining to faith, hope, and charity (1 Cor 13:13). When we willingly break the bond our bond of charity with Christ, we fall from grace.


131 posted on 03/25/2015 5:51:59 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
However, he also clearly states that certain Christians have “fallen from grace” (Gal 5:4). What does the Apostle mean when he says that certain Christians have fallen from grace?

As always...context is key.

1It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.

3And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.

4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

>Some background: The Judaizers had come to this group of believers and was telling them they had to be circumcised and keep the Law in order to be saved. In other words, they had to do "works" to be saved.

>This group has not "fallen" from grace....yet. Paul is giving them a warning that if they accept circumcision and the Law as the basis for their "salvation", then they will have fallen from grace. >

> You are fallen from grace if you are relying upon anything other than Christ.

>Paul goes on in v5-6 to make it clear it's all about faith in Jesus.

For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

132 posted on 03/25/2015 6:15:53 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: NKP_Vet
I'm breaking this down in bits...

Since the Apostle believes that one might fall from grace,

We've addressed this in the prior post. Paul does not believe they can "fall from grace", unless you are relying upon circumcision and the Law for your salvation. Then you are no longer under grace....but works.

he elsewhere encourages the Christians in Philippi to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12).

Again, context is the key here. In the same letter to the Philippians in 3 Paul again makes it clear we are not to rely upon works or our deeds for our salvation.

In 3:1-3 Paul again gives an admonition not to be conformed to the Judaizers (these were busy people!).....in v3 he notes...we glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh.

That sure doesn't sound like someone who is advocating "working" for your salvation....does it?

In v4-6 he gives an outline of reasons why he "could" brag about the flesh, but then in 7-14 he makes it clear he is relying only upon faith in Christ....

v9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

Again, that sure doesn't sound like someone attempting to "work out" their salvation does it?

We are to work out our salvation.

No....there's nothing, NOTHING, we can do to earn our salvation or keep it. It's all from Jesus. If not, we elevate ourselves to the cross if there is anything we have that is "good enough". Recall, Paul in Phil 3:8 considered all of the things he could boast about to be rubbish. The greek word for rubbish has the meaning of waste thrown to dogs; stuff that is good for nothing except to be discarded.

Does that sound like a man who is telling the Philippians, or anyone else, to rely upon the flesh and any "deeds"?

While it is a gift, it requires our effort.

If it requires our effort, it is no longer a gift. What could we possibly do that would even begin to approach what Jesus did on the cross for us? NOTHING!!!!!! Paul noted in Phil 3:8 that he has nothing to brag about....no effort on his part, not his past as a Pharisee, not being in the tribe of Benjamin, not being a Hebrew of Hebrews, he was found blameless in the Law.

Yet none, none of this was "good enough".

If you receive the gift of a bicycle, it is worthless until you actually get on the bike and start peddling.

The key here is that we received the gift...we did nothing to "earn the bicycle."

If the giver of the gift saw the bicycle leaning against the wall in your garage covered in dust, he would be offended. The giver wanted the recipient to enjoy cycling, but this intention was never realized.

I will agree that once we have faith in Christ we are to produce fruit....the fruit of the Spirit as mentioned in Galatians. Sadly, some will bear a little fruit, but others will produce a whole bunch like Paul. But that fruit does not save us or keep us saved, else we have something to boast about which Paul in Philippians clearly said we don't.

The same is true of salvation. The gift of salvation has been given to us so that we can be conformed to the image of His Son (Rom 8:29).

This is a profound honor. We are called not only to believe in Christ, but also to become like Christ. We participate in the life of Christ. It is for this reason that we are called Christians. This means that our life is characterized by acts pertaining to faith, hope, and charity (1 Cor 13:13).

On this there is no agreement! I would add Galatians regarding the fruit of the Spirit and there are other places that show us how we are to live as Christians. We are to be Christ-like in our day to day actions with others. See, we can agree!

When we willingly break the bond our bond of charity with Christ, we fall from grace

What sin is there that is greater than the shed blood of Christ than can unseal what has been sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13-14)?

How big does that sin have to be that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross couldn't cover it (Rms 4:7-8)?

Romans 8:1 tells us there is "therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Hey....excellent discussion! I enjoy this kind of exchange.

133 posted on 03/25/2015 6:47:26 PM PDT by ealgeone
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