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To: sparklite2; RaceBannon; knarf
Isn’t the title of Queen of the Universe deification?

"Queen of Heaven" is her more common title (though some scattered devotional materials might call her "Queen of the Universe"). But: you'll have to explain how that's "deification" (apart from a reader's mere emotional reaction to the title).

If someone had said "GODDESS of the Universe", then you'd have a clear-cut case. But Queen? Mary is the Queen-Mother (Hebrew: gebirah) of the King of Kings... and she doesn't need to be "deified" in order to have the authority which God bestowed upon her. (Compare how the Davidic King Solomon treated his mother: he had a throne placed at his right hand for her, he bowed down to her, and he would not refuse her what she asked [1 Kings 2:19-20]).

And as for the idea of Jesus "rebuking" His mother... don't be silly! First of all, that would have been a violation of the commandment to "honor His mother"; second, the title of "woman" is one of great respect, and it indicates her unique role as the New Eve (compare to Genesis 3:15... the seed of the Woman is now speaking to the Woman; John 19:26, Mary as the mother of the beloved disciple, who represents us all; Revelation 11:19-12:17, the woman clothed with the sun, the mother of Jesus and the mother of all Christians). Do you honestly think that Mary was not INCLUDED (and especially so) in Jesus' description of "those who do the Will of the Father"? And do you honestly think that Jesus would have AGREED to Mary's request (cf. the Wedding at Cana) if it had been so wrong/outrageous as to merit a "rebuke" (much less produce over 100 *gallons* of choice wine--an overabundance!)?

I'd gently caution against people living out an agenda so as to see "rebukes" where there are none.

...and re: the idea that the Blessed Virgin was somehow "artificially constructed" so as to allow celibate men to "cope"... well... with all due respect: anyone who says that is speaking from utter ignorance of how celibacy actually works.
17 posted on 03/23/2015 2:51:33 PM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: paladinan
You miss my point

I am a sinful man ... born again, yet sinful .. like Paul and Archelaus ...

And sinful men think sinful thoughts .... not goody two shoed, I lied four times, father ... thoughts .... but really, really sinful thoughts

And My comment was about the writer stating that thr rise and popularity of Mary emerged from the monastaries

Monastaries are places men go to be alone (hopefully) with God

Men ... sinful men trying to get away from their own sinfulness (which is impossible) CAN be (mis)directed to think on other things and perhaps .... PERHAPS ... Mary was the target for those impure thoughts and in order to cover their impurity, they exalted her above all humanity

I don't know

Who knows WHY Catholics exalt and reverence Mary as they do

MY comment was purely flesh speculation based on the author's stating the exaltation of Mary seemed to begin in the monastaries


Add your own sinful thoughts .... mariolotry is most obviously a wasted energy

34 posted on 03/23/2015 3:14:47 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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To: paladinan; RnMomof7; sparklite2; RaceBannon; knarf
you'll have to explain how that's "deification" (apart from a reader's mere emotional reaction to the title).

In Catholic ascriptions which almost deify Mary, thinking of mortals above that which is written, (1Co. 4:6) it is taught by Catholics*,


62 posted on 03/23/2015 4:47:53 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: paladinan
If someone had said "GODDESS of the Universe", then you'd have a clear-cut case.

Are you saying that it is impossible to worship something without calling it God or without using the word worship?

127 posted on 03/24/2015 5:50:07 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (No one can come to me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.)
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