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To: Colofornian

A baby cannot make a decision to follow Christ so baptism is not needed. Baptism is only for those who have repented and given their lives to Christ as a public confession of faith in Him. Throughout the Bible, from John the Baptist on, the cry is to “repent and be baptised...”


139 posted on 03/09/2015 4:33:33 PM PDT by rabidralph
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To: rabidralph; All
A baby cannot make a decision to follow Christ so baptism is not needed...Throughout the Bible, from John the Baptist on, the cry is to “repent and be baptised...”

Exactly. Be baptized -- which the NT describes as a purely passive act that happens to us. (I can perhaps go into this in more detail on another post)

Note that the Scriptures don't say, "Repent and make 'a decision for Christ,' now do they?

Note that the Scriptures don't say "Go and make disciples of all nations" by having them make "decisions for Christ" -- now do they>

Instead what does Jesus say?

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (Matthew 28)

The Greek there for "nations" is panta ta ethne -- "ethne" is where we get the word "ethnic" from..So Jesus isn't so much talking about all political-boundary nations -- but all ethnic groups. (And last time I looked, kids under age 8 were part of "all ethnic groups).

Or do you claim that Jesus' Great Commission there in Matthew 28:18-20 doesn't apply to kids under 8 -- or kids under a certain age group?

As for repentance...

1 Adults aren't any more "kingdom worthy" -- even repentant -- than little kids are. In fact, Jesus claims just the opposite:

If you DON'T become like a little baby/kid, heaven's NOT for you

Focus of passage Jesus in Luke Jesus in Mark Jesus in Matthew
Adults in fact need to be like little children "Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will NEVER enter it.” (Luke 18:17) Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will NEVER enter it.” (Mark 10:15) “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will NEVER enter the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 18:3)
Context of passage People were bringing BABIES to Jesus (Luke 18:15) People were bringing little children to Jesus (Mark 10:13) Jesus called a little child to Him (Matt. 18:2)
What was the reaction of the disciples? The disciples rebuked the people for bringing children to Jesus (Luke 18:15) The disciples rebuked the people for bringing children to Jesus (Mark 10:13) In the next chapter of Matthew 19 -- people were bringing little children to Jesus -- and the disciples rebuked them for doing that (v. 13)
How did Jesus respond to the disciples' rebuke toward the people? But Jesus called the children to him and said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these". (Luke 18:16) When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these." (Mark 10:14) Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” (Matt. 19:14)

2

Who gets the credit for repenting? Us? Or God acting thru us?

Passage cite Verse says My comment
Romans 2:4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? If you were lost in the dark...and a person guided you home via his light...are you going to credit you stumbling home to yourself?
Acts 5:31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might GIVE repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel. [Uh, hint: When you GIVE something of tremendous value to someone else, that's a gift of tremendous generosity...Or, would somebody think: God "owes" us to forgive us?]
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has GRANTED even the Gentiles repentance unto life." Bottom-line: If God didn't grant repentance to any of us of any age; none of us would have repented!!! (He could leave us hard-hearted & not have the Holy Ghost convict us of anything!)
Isaiah 30:15 This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: 'In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it.' You see, we need to be careful of not making repentance into some "bootstrap" work we of our own power accomplish, thereby turning it into another man-glorifying work. Repentance, Isaiah says, is in a similar category to rest...quietness...trust in another (not in ourselves). But guess what? Too many "religious" people are like the Israelites of old: we "would have none of it."

143 posted on 03/10/2015 2:34:01 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: rabidralph; All
A baby cannot make a decision to follow Christ so baptism is not needed...

Decisional regeneration is NOT Biblical

Were that to be the case, I could claim, "On such & such a day, I decided to go to heaven."

Who gets/steals the glory for that? (I would be)

Those who embrace decisional regeneration:
1. Tend to rely upon one Old Testament passage (Joshua 24:15) & one New Testament passage (Rev. 3:20). They (often) fail to disclose that Rev. 3:20 was written to a church (of Laodicea) -- with Christians already in their midst. Joshua 24:15 is likewise aimed at God's people.

2. Wind up conveying that those outside of Christ are somehow on "neutral" ground and have this inherent spiritual capacity to "decide". The Bible doesn't lay out any third neutral ground:
We are either...
...in the Kingdom of Light, or one of darkness.
...alive in Christ; or spiritually dead.
...free in Christ; or spiritually enslaved.

Spiritually enslaved people (John 8:34; Romans 6:6-20)...
...who are spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1-5; Luke 9:60)...
...can't simply wield some magical "decision" to regenerate themselves, any more than Lazarus could have "decided" to wake up from the dead & walk out of his grave (John 11).

So, in other words, even Faith isn't the cause of salvation; it is simply THE connector. It's the bridge 100% constructed by Another -- and we don't even move across that bridge on our own power.

Faith responsively participates WITH salvation.
Faith is not something we DO in order to receive God's mercy; it's the RESULT of God's mercy toward us. (It's the opposite of a "required law")
And faith is a 100% gift RECEIVED (Eph. 2:8-9).
Our role as adopted sons is "RECEIVED" (John 1:12); Jesus talked about RECEIVING His Kingdom like a little child (Luke 18:17; Mark 10:15; Matthew 18:3)

If not 'decisional regeneration,' then who is credited for assuming initiative? Who gets the glory?

The Father The Son The Holy Spirit
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day." (Jesus, John 6:44) You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. (Jesus, John 15:16) "Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, 'Jesus be cursed,' and no one can say, 'Jesus is Lord,' except by the Holy Spirit. (Apostle Paul, 1 Cor. 12:3)
[Consider a personal New Testament study upon the word "elect": Every political election -- the people are doing the "choosing"...they are not merely "forecasting" who will win] 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. (John, referencing authority given by Jesus to be born of God 1:12-13) Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." (John 3:5) [My note: NONE of us checked off on our first birth; Jesus four times compares the second birth of the Spirit to the first one in John 3:3-7]

144 posted on 03/10/2015 2:49:38 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: rabidralph; All
Baptism is only for those who have repented...

The New Testament directs us to baptize entire households:

We have references to SIX households that were the target of ministry in the NT alone. In five of these, we see they baptized the entire household:

* 1 Cor. 1:16
* Acts 11:14
* Acts 16:15
* Acts 16:25-34
* Acts 18:8

(Of course, the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8 would have had no "household" to baptize)

In Judaism and among Greek-speaking Jews, you had what was called the Oikos formula (Oikos = household in Greek).

What makes the Acts' cases interesting is...
1. These were all SUDDEN baptisms. Usually in Western society, we're used to each family member coming along at their own speed -- "in God's timing" -- and the emphasis is not having one family member conform just because somebody else is...or the emphasis is on letting children "make up their OWN minds." (Such is NOT the case in Acts)
2. Acts 16 is particularly of interest because the directive "to believe" by the disciples was made ONLY to the jailer (v. 31)...
...and the ONLY ONE we are told in the account that responded with such belief was again the jailer (v. 34).
Yet...
...who was baptized? (His entire household, v. 33).
...Who was "saved" according to the disciples' promise? (The entire household, v. 31).
...Who rejoiced because of the baptismal salvation? (The entire household, v. 34)

I'm frankly not sure that with FIVE -- count 'em FIVE -- Scriptural accounts of entire-household baptisms -- most if not all done at the same time...
...exactly why people are disobedient by rebelling versus following suit.

With baseball starting up, the Scriptural score is...
...Whole-household baptisms 5...
...Age-of-accountability based baptisms 0...

145 posted on 03/10/2015 3:10:35 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: rabidralph; All
Baptism is only for those who have repented...

Ya know, Jesus already indicated that the Gospel alone was going to wind up dividing families:

34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ (Jesus, Matthew 10)

I'm not exactly sure why we have entire denominations catering to greater family division by unBiblical age-segmentation baptisms based upon an unBiblical "age-of-accountability" notions.

Why not foster greater family spiritual unity by baptizing entire households?

Why divide the family up unnecessarily when the New Testament doesn't?

146 posted on 03/10/2015 3:17:09 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: rabidralph

>>A baby cannot make a decision to follow Christ so baptism is not needed. Baptism is only for those who have repented and given their lives to Christ as a public confession of faith in Him. Throughout the Bible, from John the Baptist on, the cry is to “repent and be baptised...”

No one can make a decision to follow Christ, baby or adult. The unbeliever is dead in trespasses and sins (what can dead men do?), the gospel is foolishness to unbelievers, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except through the Holy Spirit. When one “makes their decision” for Jesus, they only were able to do so because they believed before they “decided.”

This doesn’t mean they’re not saved, but many people are thereafter told to look back on their own decision as the assurance of their salvation. If you really decided for Christ, you’re saved! So one is to rest their assurance of salvation on the power of their own will’s decision?

I’ll rest my belief on what the scriptures say Jesus does through baptism:
Cleans you from iniquity, gives you a heart of flesh rather that of stone. Ezekiel 36:25-33
Makes you a disciple of Jesus. Matthew 28:19 (with teaching)
Forgives your sins. Acts 2:38 (With repentance)
Gives you the Holy Spirit. John 3:5, Acts 2:38.
Joins you with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Romans 6:2-5, Colossians 2:12.
Clothes you in Christ. Galatians 3:27.
Regenerates you. Titus 3:5.
Saves you. 1 Peter 3:21.

It’s all about Jesus. Nothing about me or my decision.


192 posted on 03/10/2015 8:35:45 PM PDT by CraigEsq
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