“I’ll call the award, the “John 3:16 Critique Award”
Tell you what. You both can compete for it...
and of course, the anti-baptists folks like yourself would need to need to prove that no children were living in that household”
I feel no need to compete with Iscool, but I’d be content to co-receive such an award.
I have no need to prove none of the household baptisms involved infants because I’m not the one who is trying to make baptism be something other than what the principles of scripture teach: that baptism with water is done in recognition of conversion, and is an outward ceremony demonstrating the Baptism of the Holy Spirit that makes us one with Christ.
Baptism did not appear out of no where. It was practiced by the Jews for many centuries. It was known to the Gentiles as well. No one needed to explain to Cornelius what baptism meant. He did not need classes. He KNEW - because it was a common practice of the time.
Water Baptism marked a change in life, involving repentance and a commitment to a new way of living. It showed the world that the person had changed inside. It was a public statement of repentance and dedication, which an infant was incapable of doing.
At no time does anyone claim water baptism is a requirement for being saved from sin. It is used as a means of SANCTIFICATION - separating us from the world around us. Since the term “salvation” can refer to both justification and sanctification, it can be true that water baptism is used in salvation - not by justifying us or placing us in Christ, which is done by the Holy Spirit and not man - but by a public proclamation of repentance and dedication. It sets us apart from the world around us.
I’m a Baptist. I obviously value baptism. Indeed, I’d be content to baptize someone minutes after their conversion if they understood what it meant (as everyone did in the time of the Apostles).
But there is no requirement for water baptism in order to be joined to Christ and be placed “in Christ”, which is one of the most common expressions in the New Testament and one of the most important.
“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.” - Ephesians 1
“Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” - Ephesians 2
IN HIM. IN CHRIST. What does that mean?
Predestination. Predestination (Gk prooizo) means “to decide beforehand” and applies to God’s purposes comprehended in election. Election is God’s choice “in Christ” of a people (the true church) for himself. Predestination comprehends what will happen to God’s people (all genuine believers in Christ).
(1) God predestines his elect to be: (a) called (Rom. 8:30); (b) justified (Ro 3:24, 8:30); (c) glorified (Ro 8:30); (d) conformed to the likeness of his Son (Ro 8:29); (e) holy and blameless (Eph 1:4); (f) adopted as God’s children (1:5); (g) redeemed (1:7); (h) recipients of an inheritance (1:14); (i) for the praise of his glory (Eph 1:2; 1 Pe 2:9); (j) recipients of the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13; Gal 3:14); and (k) created to do good works (Eph 2:10).
(2) Predestination, like election, refers to the corporate body of Christ (i.e., the true spiritual church), and comprehends individuals only in association with that body through a living faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 1:5, 7, 13; cf. Ac 2:38-41; 16:31).
Summary. Concerning election and predestination, we might use the analogy of a great ship on its way to heaven. The ship (the church) is chosen by God to be his very own vessel. Christ is the Captain and Pilot of this ship. All who desire to be a part of this elect ship and its Captain can do so through a living faith in Christ, by which they come on board the ship. As long as they are on the ship, in company with the ship’s Captain, they are among the elect. If they choose to abandon the ship and Captain, they cease to be part of the elect. Election is always only in union with the Captain and his ship. Predestination tells us about the ship’s destination and what God has prepared for those remaining on it. God invites everyone to come aboard the elect ship through faith in Jesus Christ. [Life in the Spirit Study Bible, pp. 1854-1855]
To be “in Him” is to be on the ship, to be one of the passengers. It means God is taking you home. It is an act of God, and it is the baptism that JESUS does that places us on board the ship: IN HIM.
” “As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” - Matt 3
All will be baptized, either with the Holy Spirit or with Fire. “He will gather His wheat into the barn” - baptized with the Holy Spirit. “Burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire” describes the fate of all the rest.
Very early on, the prophecies of Peter and Paul came true:
“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”
“27 For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. 28 Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them.”
The wolves came, and began to teach that they had a special power, and could control God with their rites, including water baptism. It was and is heresy to believe that something a man does to another will save him from sin and obligate God. If water baptism saved us, then we ought to flood the streets and save all the unconverted! But water baptism only has a role for those who have already believed, and no infant is capable of repenting and believing.
Acts 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
We already know Jesus said to make disciples of all nations (all ethnic groups). So, actually, you're the one attempting to form a pool of exclusion where none is.
So, having arrived at that basic understanding, when we look at the multiple "whole household" passages, both sides "presume": It's NOT that one side presumes & the other doesn't, both presume.
Secondly, NO age of anybody -- adult, teen, pre-teen, primary, Kind., pre-school, toddler, infant -- is EVER given in Scripture.
If we take your counsel -- and other credobaptists, then for all we know, nobody under 25 was ever baptized because the Bible is silent on age -- and therefore nobody under 25 should ever be baptized.
At the very least, the "Bible-is-silent "age-based" argument infants applies equally across the board to teens & pre-teens. IoW, those age groups then shouldn't be baptized IF that's an argument to be stuck with.
Finally, most credobaptist groups have created "baby dedications." The Bible is silent on ANY age kid-dedications, let alone baby ones...
We would thereby expect credobaptists to show some consistency and staunchly come out against that...but they don't.
Water Baptism marked a change in life, involving repentance and a commitment to a new way of living.
Repentance is an ONGOING part of life for EVERY Christian.
No Christian repents only once -- as if it's a baptism-related checklist thing.
IoW, it's EXPECTED of EVERY Christian to repent as often as necessary in their life.
Nobody is claiming that this expectation will be any different for anybody. Every person baptized as an infant, a toddler, etc...will have this expectation in their life.
People wield the "repentance" argument as if those baptized will never be expected to repent. (Nothing could be further from the truth)
An adult being baptized doesn't repent once-and-for-all time; and neither anybody younger than that.