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To: Alex Murphy
There are though a number of Rome's cyber-defenders that think the Third Reich began with Luther and think posting Luther's dreadful comments from The Jews and Their Lies is a meaningful argument against Protestantism.

Before launching into a refutation of "Rome's cyber defenders that think the Third Reich began with Luther", an example of the "number" of such Cyber defender or even such a cyber defense would be in order, no?

I clicked though your link in the clause "Rome's cyber defenders that think the Third Reich began with Luther" expecting to find, well, an example of one of "Rome's cyber defenders" who "think the Third Reich began with Luther" and instead I found an excellent blog post by a Lutheran, about a fascinating book by Lutheran writer Uwe Siemon-Netto.

Neither the book nor the blog post cited any of Rome's cyber defenders. Rather, the blogger wrote this excellent summary of the book:

In a world ripe with propaganda it is refreshing to find a book dissecting a cliché that was used for just such purposes by people as far apart as Josef Goebbels and Alan Dershowitz, namely, that Luther was the “spiritual predecessor of Adolf Hitler” (p. 23). Siemon-Netto’s book traces the origin of the cliché that “linked Luther to Hitler“ back to the liberal theologian Troeltsch who passed it on to the writer Thomas Mann who, in turn, shared it with the author of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich William L. Shirer (p.24). From there it was picked up by the Germanophobic propagandist Lord Vansittart as well as by archbishops and priests of the Church of England. It was also popular among America’s Union Theological Seminary faculty in the early thirties and is used by U.S. historians like Robert Michael and Lucy Dawidowicz, among many others, today (p. 23).

In fact, those who were primarily responsible for the Holocaust and generally for the brutality on the Eastern Front of World War II were men who had not only left Christianity but were intent on destroying the entire Judeo-Christian tradition because it was unGerman. To show the ludicrous nature of the cliché that blamed the Holocaust on the line of descent from the Protestant Luther, Siemon-Netto points out that many perpetrators were born into homes and countries (Austria and Poland, for example) that were formerly or nominally Roman Catholic. He raises this point only, however, to emphasize “the absurdity of the charge that one Christian denomination’s theology paved the way for genocide“ (p. 66)

So let's go through that list of those who propounded the accusation that Luther was the “spiritual predecessor of Adolf Hitler”

1. Josef Goebbels, born Catholic but hardly a defender of the the Church, let alone a cyber defender. A choice quote: "The Catholic clergy is collaborating with the enemies of our country in a truly treasonable manner. I could burst with rage when I think that we cannot possibly call the guilty ones to account now. We shall save our vengeance until later"

2. Alan Dershowitz (Jewish)

3. Troeltsch, born Lutheran and a prominent Protestant Theologian

4.Thomas Mann, Lutheran

5. William L. Shirer, Protestant

6. Lord Vansittart (Church of England Protestant I believe)

7. Archbishops and priests of the Church of England. Catholics!! But too early to be cyber defenders and by the way, no quote is provided here to support their role in this accusation.

8. America’s Union Theological Seminary faculty. Protestant.

9. Robert Michael, Protestant.

10. Lucy Dawidowicz, Jewish

After a fairly exhaustive search for one of the "number of Rome's cyber-defenders that think the Third Reich began with Luther" your links would so far suggest that the number in question is approximately zero.

p.s. "Topper17" who is a member of the Catholic answers forum may indeed be one of Rome's cyber defenders, but his argument has nothing to do with the Holocaust. His point is that Luther's views were worse thatn his contemporaries. He doesn't prove his point because he only cites Luther and not his contemporaries but either way, it doesn't move the "number" north of ZERO.

12 posted on 03/06/2015 9:31:59 AM PST by edwinland
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To: edwinland
He doesn't prove his point because he only cites Luther and not his contemporaries

A trait common to those decrying Luther on this point.

15 posted on 03/06/2015 10:42:22 AM PST by xone
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To: edwinland; af_vet_1981

I reread your analysis, and it is very well done. However, there are cyber defenders of Rome who tout that very thing, (Luther’s connection to the Holocaust)right here on FR. One right here on this thread. The other only this week. But since one must ‘prove his point’, they probably don’t count in that total either.


17 posted on 03/06/2015 2:27:27 PM PST by xone
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