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To: marshmallow

Isn’t the only time that a Pope has to be thought of as perfect, is when he is passing on to all Catholics, what God just told him, or that someone we knew is now with God and is a saint?


42 posted on 03/04/2015 12:41:53 PM PST by ansel12 (Palin--Mr President, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a nuke is a good guy with a nuke.)
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To: ansel12; marshmallow
"...when [the Pope] is passing on to all Catholics, what God just told him, or that someone we knew is now with God and is a saint?"

I'm glad you brought that up, ansel12, because that is a very common but very mistaken idea of what papal infalliility is.

According to the Catholic Church, Papal infallibility has no positive content. I'm going to say that louder so everybody can hear it. Papal infallibility has no positive content.

It is entirely negative: not a matter of what the Pope can or does say, but of what he cannot say.

At no time is a pope an all-purpose oracle. It is NOT prophecy. It is NOT inspired the way Scripture is inspired. There is no guarantee that a pope will express moral/doctrinal concepts in a full, complete, clear, accurate and timely manner.

All we have is the promise that he will not make an official declaration on faith and morals, ex cathedra, intended to be irreformable and binding on the conscience of the whole Church, that leads the Church into error.

Some Catholics are disappointed that Papal infallibility is as narrow and limited as it is. Some crave that all-purpose prophecy/oracle stuff. But such is not the case. And a great many Catholics (and non-Catholics too) are glad to hear that the scope of infallibility is as narrow as it is.

This 2-minute video should raise a smile, and it actually does show how (historically) the gift of infallibility has worked out in practice.

Fun Video (LINK) --- Go ahead and click the link, it's well worth your two minutes.

46 posted on 03/04/2015 3:21:14 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Save us from the fires of hell; lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy)
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To: ansel12
Isn’t the only time that a Pope has to be thought of as perfect, is when he is passing on to all Catholics, what God just told him, or that someone we knew is now with God and is a saint?

Not quite. Let met take it apart:

Isn’t the only time that a Pope has to be thought of as perfect

"Perfect" and "infallible" aren't quite the same. Infallible means only "preserved from error". "Perfect" means things like "preserved from sin" or "exactly optimal in every way," neither of which is included in "infallible".

Infallibility is only a guarantee of what the Pope won't say. It doesn't guarantee that what he actually says is helpful, necessary, or especially well-phrased, or even that he will say anything at all.

when he is passing on to all Catholics, what God just told him

No, there's no claim that the Pope channels new revelations from God. (The most prominent group that makes claims like that is headquartered in Salt Lake City.) Public revelation (revelation binding on all Christians) ended at the death of the last apostle. All the Pope can do is help the church to work out the implications of public revelation. The Holy Spirit protects him in that, so he doesn't herd the flock over a cliff, so to speak.

someone we knew is now with God and is a saint

Yes, canonizations are infallible acts.

61 posted on 03/05/2015 5:40:06 AM PST by Campion
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